BOPEC (Elections Commission) Special Meeting

okay welcome everyone to the April 10th 2023 special meeting of the budget and

oversight of public elections Committee of the San Francisco elections commission I am the chair Chris Jerdonek

the time is now 606 pm and I call the meeting to order

this meeting is being held in person at City Hall Room 408 when Dr Carlton B goodlip Place San Francisco California

members of the public May attend the meeting to observe and provide public comment either at the physical meeting location listed above or via the online

well review the online WebEx platform in addition to participating in real

time interested persons are encouraged to participate in this meeting by submitting public comment and writing by

noon of the day of the meeting to Chris Dot Jerdonek

j-e-r-d-o-n-e-k at sfgov.org it will be shared with the commission committee

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on the last page of the agenda

okay I will next proceed to the committee roll call

commissioner Hayden Crowley here commissioner levolski here in our

church organic impure okay next we're going to proceed to the statement

(1) Land Acknowledgment

of the land acknowledgment with um commissioner levels would you like to

um say it Atlantic emotion I'll give you a moment to

sorry yes okay thank you the San Francisco elections commission

acknowledges that we are on the unseated ancestral homeland of the ramachus aloni

who are the original inhabitants of the San Francisco Peninsula as the

indigenous stewards of this land and in accordance with their Traditions the Rama tasheloni have never ceded lost nor

forgotten their responsibilities as caretakers of this place as well as for

All Peoples who reside in their traditional territory as guests

we recognize that we are that we benefit from living and working on their

traditional Homeland we wish to pay our Respect by acknowledging

the ancestors and relatives of the rheumatoch community and affirming their Sovereign rights as first peoples

okay thank you and I would also like to note that as chair I have excused director Ernst from

attending today's meeting and which has led by our bylaws and it's primarily because none of the agenda items in

today's meeting like directly involve the department

okay so now we will move on to item number two

2. General Public Comment

general public comments public comment on any issue within bopex General jurisdiction that is not covered by

another item on this agenda okay so I don't see any

members of the public in the room nor online so we will then move on to item number

3. Elections Commission Website

three elections commission website discussion and possible action regarding an

elections commission's website including possible changes in additions as well as the process for updating the website and

deciding on website content

okay so for this item I I'm first going to um

we do have an invited speaker today so I'm just going to allow her to join the meeting online

okay and then I will just make a few introductory comments

it's um this is Amy Martin She's the project manager for you know she's she's

spoken with us before she spoke with us a while ago well hi Amy hello how's everyone

doing well okay yeah so I'm just going to say a few things before we um move to

move it over to you but um first I just want to review the packet items we have for this agenda

item we have a document that President Stone put together of some feedback and suggestions on the website

and then there's also a document I put together that um describes some of the different website elements that we can have on our

home page and then there's also um attached to the last agenda item of of today's meeting

there's an an email from president Stone that kind of talks about the overall goals for our committee and there's a

little section in there that talks about the website as well so for today's agenda item I thought we

could um number one you know learn some information about the website you know including some of

the possibilities we have which which Amy will be a big help with and then we can discuss and brainstorm

some ideas and then we can after that perhaps adopt some recommendations of

possible changes and um and also discuss about the process we use as a commission

so um yes I'd like to welcome our Our Guest um Amy Martin who's a project

manager with digital services and she's spoken to the full commission before when we first switched over our website

so I'm Amy thank you very much for being available to speak with us today and so when I'll turn it over to you

great um and thanks so much for having uh having me come in

um glad I can make time for everybody here um I'm always happy to come in and answer questions for this committee on

your website um I know it's a really recent change and you're still getting to know the new platform so

um anytime I can answer questions in this forum or one-on-one I'm happy to do that

um let's see I think um uh Vice President Joe Dominic was

interested in me talking a little bit about the site as a service oriented website

um and I can start with that just to talk about how sf.gov is built overall

and the kind of the structure of it and um I think I might start out by making a

bit of a comparison to another Government website that launched last year

um if all of you are familiar with the program that through which people could get covid tests at home for free that

was a government program uh that was it was a partnership between a few different agencies I know the U.S Postal

Service was a big part of it um let me see if I can share

I'm not sure if I'm able to share on WebEx let me see I think I think you should be

able to I think I just have to turn it on

hmm I'll just move over there

nope I am not able to change that permission setting um I can share a link if um Chris if you

would be able to share um see am I able to share that share her screen

Amy do you know if that's something on your end or it's on my end I think

um I I'm not getting permissions to share my screen

um but so would you like me to share some slides for you then or

yeah I could do that um I was going to share just the um the website first for kova.gov tests

um it's the we didn't you know we had nothing to do with the site obviously but it's an example of a service-centered site in government

um and I wanted to talk about some of the differences between this and a more traditional government website

um because it's representative of what we're doing with sf.gov um I don't know if I can send a link but

if you could pull up that website and just show it um it's a nice example because it gets

at some of the kind of primary differences um between those

but I can also just talk briefly about um the movement in government towards

service centered work in in websites we are used to creating websites as people

who work in government that are full of information about our departments and really make everything very transparent

very visible to people who are searching for things but some of the research that's been done on why people use

government websites indicates that most of the time when people come to a government website they're actually

looking for a service that they can get through the municipality that they're working with or through the federal

government in our case it's through the city and county of San Francisco and so when we build sf.gov we prioritize

putting the services that people can get through the city and county front and center on as many of the landing pages

as we could within the site so that includes the overall landing page for sf.gov and then also all of the what we

call agency Pages within the site so it's landing pages for departments public bodies commissions all the kind

of um sub landing pages that people might come to if they're engaging with a department or a committee

um the difference there is that we are asking we are well we are not asking

people basically when they use our site to learn about the structure of San Francisco City and County government

before they navigate through the site and we're not asking people to learn how

to use our website to be able to use it and to ask the way that that translates

to how the how the website works how the home page works is that um we make the

navigation menu for the site very very minimal so if you've noticed if you look at sf.gov the navigation menu at the top

of any page is just services and departments and that's all that you see

at the top of any page is a navigation menu there is a picker above that for languages and it's in the original

language for um Spanish Chinese and Filipino so if people need to use a language that's not

English those three threshold languages are available too um so I know that um in commissioner

Stone's notes I saw it brought up that um there is not a specific header navigation menu on the landing page

um and that often comes up as a concern when people move to sf.gov and I I wanted to talk about why that is and why

the site is set up that way um and it's just because we wanted to build the site in a way that people

don't have to actually learn how to navigate through a landing page structure and through a navigation menu

to find what they're looking for so the services are right at the top we make the services as easy to find as we can

in the case of a commission a public body the key service that you provide is

the transparency into your meetings into the process and how you govern and

oversee departments in the city county of San Francisco and so your meetings are always very very close to the top of

your agency page I did show um when I met with commissioner jordanick last week I

showed him some other ways to elevate content um toward the top of your page and we

can look at a couple of those too so there are some ways to make content more visible and findable as you look at the

structure of an agency page um another thing that we acknowledge about sf.gov is that now that our

departments as they move on to sf.gov they're really gaining an advantage in search engine optimization because

they'll be using a gov platform from now on dot gov search results.sf.gov those are prioritized

above other search results when it comes to search engines like Google and so the

results get bumped above other results so if for example I am in San Francisco

geographically and I search for elections once Department of Elections is on

sf.gov it's going to be the first thing that comes up is going to be their site elections commission is is going to be

very close to the top two but it's going both of those pages are going to appear before any of the content out there that

might be on like a DOT org or a.com website just because of that.gov address

um so we really like to help people take full advantage of that kind of search engine dominance and we acknowledge that

a lot of people are coming to pages on sf.gov directly from Google and a lot of people are coming to not

agency Pages not a landing page directly from Google so somebody could come for

example directly to the meeting page for this exact meeting straight from Google

just by Googling the name of this committee and the date they could find that meeting pretty easily in Google and

they could come straight here and they might bypass your landing page for elections commission altogether they

might never see the elections commission agency page so the way that we've built the pages is

to try to make them as complete in serving a user goal as possible so that

the information can live on one page without being overwhelming to a user

that's kind of my overview of where we're going with making the site oriented toward users centered on

Services a service the way we talk about it on sf.gov is a transaction or an

action that people take so we might think of like um the example that I give is we might

think of a computer lab as a service but on sf.gov the computer lab would be the location where you get services like

using a computer using the internet printing things like that

um any questions so far

or anything else people want me to talk about um

what one question I have on the services aspect would would um

like speaking with a commissioner be a service or if members of the public wanted to reach out to individuals

it's not a bad idea yeah um we've had actually um

somebody wrote a page for another commission that was speak at a public meeting and I forget what page type it

was I personally think um that that could be a service page

um learning how to speak at a public meeting um that is something that you could get

from the city let me see if I can find that page quickly um but yeah we have another committee

um the shelter monitoring Committee of San Francisco they have a service which is make a complaint about a shelter in

San Francisco so that's a service that's on their page there are a lot of committees and commissions that don't offer a lot of services uh because the

service that you provide is is the meetings and the transparency into those meetings but yeah there are some

committees that have services and I'm definitely I would encourage um thinking about the ways that you

offer services to the public so um if somebody wanted to

yeah if somebody wanted to like have a conversation with a commissioner we could talk about that as a service that's possible you do have contact

information on your page um at the bottom of the page but if you wanted to do something specific like

maybe set up a meeting with a commissioner or talk about an issue that concerns you

um I could see that being something that we might set up a transaction around I see okay thank you I'll commissioner

Hayden Crowley um that I'm not sure that's appropriate I

think that if someone has an issue they need to come before the commission they don't want office right mm-hmm

yeah that's good feedback okay okay um and also I will add um I'm very

familiar with your department I have worked with you before and um I work with um Carrie Bishop back when she was

a digital services and I I totally buy into the whole concept I really like it

I think it's I think it's excellent I had to use it the other day on a completely different subject matter and

I'm very impressed by it I guess I would challenge us to look about what I mean what type of services do we provide to

the public I think that's the challenge but we provide oversight but you know we're not looking for feedback from

people on operations on the elections that goes to the Department of Elections

I have guys from Lawson thank you um I I think

services that might be interesting and please um other Commissioners chime in is

you know how you conduct yourself at meetings and how you present material at

meetings might be something that would be important for services for so if

people want to come and present during our meetings and talk about certain

things some kind of instructions on how to do that because I I don't as to your

point I don't see what other services would be applicable and

they can contact us via email and I I wouldn't want to have

people coming to have a meeting with me and you know it's

not it's not appropriate but I think explaining how to come to the meeting

how to present if people want to present would be I think very useful and have

yeah the question that I have is if you were to do something like that wouldn't it be

somewhat generic for all commissions or do we do something that's unique to us

the question I think that would actually be wonderful to um have a page that's kind of generic for all commissions

because it you're absolutely right that's that is the way people think about it

um I we've actually we talked about it kind of last year as a need for

commissions and committees in general um making the processes easier to use

for people um I I live in Oakland and I was part of Oakland city government for a long time

before I came to San Francisco and I remember learning the process of being

able to speak at Oakland City Council meetings and like the little things that you have to do

correctly to even get your name on the roster and it's so challenging um I think that that that's a really

good thought um I was trying to put in the Q a I don't know if it's disabled um trying to

send a message of um the office of Civic engagement and

immigrant Affairs osea has a transaction page for making public comment during a

commission hearing during a virtual meeting um and it would be a nice one you could duplicate it but we could also talk

about just making it a shareable page that doesn't only apply to a specific

commission's meetings yeah it could go on every commission or and or you know

when there's public meetings I think though if if the department of Digital Services is looking for something

generic you might also want to start with the clerk at the Board of Supervisors

um or protocol now obviously their protocol is probably a little bit more

I'm searching for the word it's after six so I'm very tired if I'm you know it's a little bit more complex say than

maybe our commission but I don't think it should be incumbent upon this commission to come up with rules

to come from Digital Services working with sort of the umbrella groups that

that I mean the mayor's office which does most of the appointments to the clinicians as well so there's there are

secretaries of protocol in the mayor's office um and you know you could start with the

gal that um Tyra Fennell who's in charge of the appointments for the mayor to the um

commissions and then as well as Angela Cavallo at the Board of Supervisors

um and in terms and I I think that that's where it needs to go and then I think then we as a commission and other

commissions should adopt that to include at least a link to that on our pages

I have I have one concern about a generic page

um I I think it's important for people to be able to navigate and come to our

site and find exactly what they want my concern with the generic page is that people may put their request in with the

incorrect Commission because people tend to be very focused and I know I can

speak from the eye that when I'm looking for something and I want to go that's the only concern I have with a generic

page as opposed to going to our our site finding um what I need to do and what I need to

do to get on the agenda there as opposed to a generic page which could lead

people to putting things in the wrong Commission so what about having a set of rules and

then that are generic if you will but then adding R then giving the commission the

opportunity to add the specific things that are relevant to our commission like

contact the secretary yes that's part of our page yes so I think that would be helpful we're not you know we're not

Reinventing the will but we have the specific aspects right no absolutely yeah absolutely no I like that idea

I think that's exactly the right track um and like you've said too I think that it would be more on our department to

work out the specifics of how those pages would work um and we would work with uh with our

public body representatives to make sure that it was a good format um

it would be helpful I think for people like the clerk of the board maybe to get

the feedback that um that you would that you would find it useful to get help from them on the

language or things like that um that that might help us make some

traction on um working around that

um so we also are interested in things like um some of the templated language that gets

reused a lot for different commissions like um silencing phones and things like that

it's written in very formal language um and that it can be very difficult for people to understand and we encourage

writing things on the site in plain language um and it would be easier if you know if

some of that language were Rewritten and there was a kind of new boilerplate version sent out for use by committees

that was just simpler so that would be another change that eventually would like to see

could be something that takes some takes some persuasion over time

were you gonna say something you well it's so so

contact the Board of Supervisors and the mayor's office because those are the two places that I would think that you would

go to I mean this commission's kind of a um unicorn in that it's comprised of

representatives from that have been appointed by different electives there's maybe only one or two other commissions

like us so you wouldn't want to put a lot of energy in contacting those electives just because they don't have a

lot of jurisdiction over all that kind of stuff what where you do want to put your energy support of Supervisors in

the mayor's office and so I don't know if there's a Next Step because I like to move things along

um but if we want to agree to contact formally the mayor's office and the more

supervisors and just express our support for um

protocol that could go on the web on the sfgov website that could be adapted for each commission's use

would it would it be okay for me to um give that some thought into tomorrow and

talk to our delivery director about it and think about um how we might want to ask for it

um I think it's I think it's a great idea um and we we have kind of ongoing

discussions with um with some of those teams already so I wouldn't want to suggest anything that maybe like

isn't you know isn't exactly the approach that other people and digital services are taking

um but I could get back to you with an idea for next steps too sure but I I like it I like a path

forward plan too do you does your department are you under Carmen Chu yes

okay so that would be the path you did we wouldn't want to go around that and

he would be the one that would push that forward it sounds it sounds like there's

interest from your commission on helping the public understand how to

participate is that right yeah I think that's probably true of every commission I mean you would be doing a great

service yeah okay so I think the way to proceed on this Amy would be you know you can

talk with your team and then maybe get back to um me and just let let me know what what it

is that would be helpful to you and then I can just present that to the commission when we meet just so

everybody knows that's unreasonable yeah that sounds good okay yeah okay great

[Music] um okay so let's let's continue with the questions then um

I I have a couple things to suggest too but did anyone else like to have any questions for I wanted to hear your

suggestion

recommended I don't know if it makes sense or doesn't I don't have time to look Okay so

okay so um I thought what we could do is you know president Stone prepared this document

and I thought what we could do is just have um Amy kind of run through it and just

you know just providing any kind of reactions to some of the suggestions

uh just because it's a relatively brief document yeah yeah Chris if I email you

um a link to the agency page um diagram would you be able to share the

screen on that yeah I think so okay I don't understand that by email then

foreign

that's on its way okay let me pull up that email

see from president Stone

is he the email from president Stone and then there was the list of suggestions that she had right yeah the list of

suggestions okay great let me um just figure out how to share this here okay

okay great um so I'm looking at that right now um and I did see that some of the first

things that she talked about were section headers um can you just hold on one second sure

yeah are you sharing that Chris I'm setting that up right now

okay I may be having the same problem that you're having I need to kind of reset the permissions then it's it would

I would have to quit and then rejoin so I think it probably would be easiest if we just do this verbally

sure I can also if you want to forward that link it's publicly viewable um if you want to send it to the other

Commissioners they could look at it too for the agency page um documentation and there's a diagram on

it that we can talk about um it's helpful for thinking about what's possible to do on an agency page

as I'm looking at commissioner Stone's suggestions um I I saw that

uh the first few things on her list were recommendations around headers and basically wanting drop down menus and

navigation and that was why I wanted to talk at the beginning about header navigation and how and why we've decided

to keep that really simple in sf.gov and basically stick to just services and

departments on every page and then have that language picker um it is something we hear a lot from

especially from departments when they first move over is why don't I have a navigation menu on my site

um and the idea is that agency pages should be navigable by topic and people

should be able to find what they're looking for on the agency page just by browsing

um we also acknowledge that people are often not looking right at an agency page as they're going around that a lot

of people don't actually browse on city government websites that they know exactly what they're looking for and

that by putting it front and center on your agency page you're serving those people's needs best but that other

people who are looking for things like the about us information will scroll down on that HMC page and find it

um but that said I did like I said I talked to commissioner janonic about some ways

that you can make some of the other information more easily discoverable if you want to highlight it

um there are some features uh sections within the agency page that you can use to elevate content make it higher up on

the page or even really visible um if you're I don't know if people are looking at the agency page documentation

now um Amy can I just so yeah so commissioner Hayden Crowley doesn't have

access phone and I have a laptop yeah so are you able to log into the link that I

referred it to you just know because I I think there there may be an issue where um

they might need to be logging into the I think I mean so so the so so right now

without us it's down at the bottom and Robin wants to move it up yeah I know why you had a language

okay Okay so so it looks like

um at least commissioner Le'Veon myself can do you want to look good yeah you

can look at mine so

so if you're just caught until we get our own Chromebooks

okay in just one moment then we'll we'll be able to look at the page that you're describing of so okay okay you can go

ahead now thank you okay um and if you want to go to the bottom of that page there's that diagram of an

agency page with the numbered sections um I find that really useful for looking at what's possible on an agency page

because it has all the different sections that you can use the numbering

demonstrates the order you don't have to use all of those sections on an agency page but they will always appear in the

order that is written out on the page um by the numbering at this time it's

not possible to change the order of sections it's something we're talking about for the future because we get that request a lot to be able to move things

around on the page um but I guess again what I would say is when you think about like moving the

about a section higher on the page is that most people are going to be looking for your services which

um in your case would be the meetings and the transparency you provided to those um so putting it at the top of the page

makes it most directly connectable to your users and that's why it goes toward the top

um some of the things that you could add to the top of your page if you wanted to really highlight something special that's going on are a spotlight you can

use that with or without a photo and that's a great way to direct attention like if you do a big report on something

that you release some people use it for like an annual report or just some like a really splashy campaign that's going

on anything that's really exciting and you want to get people's attention on it that's a great use for a spotlight some

people just kind of use it as a header for their agency page a place to put a great photo and they link it to

something that is important to them or that people look for really often and then those three quick links right

beneath that that's also a place where you can put things that maybe people look for frequently

um I was recommending it to commissioner jordanick as a place to put a link to the archived meetings page because I

know it sounds like um your members are doing a lot of going back and forth between the archives and

the existing site and it could make it a little easier and quicker if they know if people know you can get it right from

that front page um or if you have people who are frequently asking you how to get to the

archived meeting since you just moved over and there's still probably a lot of activity around fairly recent meetings

that are archived you could add it to the quick links you could even add it temporarily and then move it out of the

quick links later if people stop asking for it so much as they get more in the past

and then going further down the page some of these other things um must be here obviously your meetings

you want those to appear you can add in the meetings for your subcommittees or not

um and I think uh commissioner jordanick you found that when you asked about it in teams recently there's a way to opt

into having all of the meetings for your subcommittee show on your agency page or to not have those

either way is possible then your services section and that's where if you had any transaction Pages

those would display and that would be if we if we did make a generic page for speak at a public meeting or if you

wanted to make a page for something like meet with a commissioner which it sounds like you won't want to make that but if you did

um then that's where that would appear if you wanted to do news feed press releases announcements anything like

that you can have that below sure yeah I'm hearing question yeah yeah

so for this for the section seven where you have Services if we were to put I

mean to me it would make sense to have it right below um meetings how to decorum all those

things at meetings it would be perfect to have it there have you looked at the sf.gov site for

the Civil Service Commission because they have done a lot of the kind of thing that you're talking about

um there are pages and I would I would share my screen if I could but

Civil Service criminal Service Commission they have made pages about because it's such a critical part of an

employee's Journey if they're speaking before the Civil Service Commission they do have pages about like what to bring

to a hearing what to wear to a hearing um what to do before your hearing to prepare things like that

um so yeah that's that could be some models for how you might work on that

kind of thing um I will say those might not be Services

um I think a service would be more like um a service I think of more as getting

something um and those pages might be more informational pages about yeah like how

to attend a meeting what to do um but certainly I could see like signing up to speak at a meeting or or

speak at a meeting itself would be a service because you're getting something that you want to do you're accomplishing a goal

um that would be a service for sure okay thank you yeah

but Civil Service Commission would be a great place to look for that examples of that kind of page

so Amy um you're saying one of the first recommendation that Robin has is she

wants to move up the about us and um I understand why you've explained very

well why that isn't the case um and so that's like

not only that it it can't be moved so it's number 12.

yeah at this point um just like as far as what the site can and can't do it

can't it we can't move it um it's not out of the question for the future

um because like I said we get that feedback a lot so it's something that our Engineers are sort of weighing right now as we think about some improvements

to the site um that said we might want to look at the things that are listed here and

think about where they actually fall in terms of your importance to your commission and if they do need to be

more findable on your site then we should work on how they could be more findable

making them structured in a way that's easier for people to get to them

um yeah and that's this is so common with that before I um

I mean it's about us is that just our bios and all that information who's on the commission and that's fine but

that's usually not why people are right because it's right because people who are going to the site are people who are

very much engaged and probably already know who we are it's also easy to find

you know if you can't find something like an about us don't you always go scroll at the bottom yeah I keep scrolling until I find it or if there

are navigation tabs yeah I always look at the bottom yeah but we're not going to change that so I won't I don't even

want to discuss it because okay you can't change it so the next thing is meetings drop down upcoming past what

does she mean does she want to include up so where we're meeting on number six

Amy means what Robin's got bullet points for

her coming in past yeah I get the impression that she's just she's asking

for a header menu with drop downs where you can pull out any of those options

um okay but the end but we can't change we

can't change the structure but right I know a question you're looking at that

right now where where you can I mean I I love the way that this is set up it's so

easy right so the question that I have is um if I wanted to look at a past meeting

where is it on this because well this is Bo pack right so let's go to let's go to

um uh oh well

yeah this is just the bopek section so are there past meetings in there

well you've got to call in and make a public comment for the meeting so that's in there that's already in there but this is

about a call-in okay let's call in but what so where would where do where

do past meetings live Chris well you'd want to navigate to the home page you have to click elections

commission towards the topic do you see that yeah within the meeting section there's a little introductory

information at the top and then there's upcoming meetings and then past meetings

oh of course click it one more time right there sorry

thanks so let's go and take a quick look upcoming meetings go okay and then so

what is what is Robin what is what's the issue here

I I think so I mean my reading I think all really she

was suggesting exploring was having like pull down menus kind of like we had on

the old site that's that's I think that's what she was referring to the drop down as opposed to

yes we have passed meaning elections commission regular meeting and see past meetings and past meetings to design so

instead of having a click box she wants a drop down

it's something we get asked for a lot so yeah that's that's how I'm reading that I yeah well I mean I just clicked on it

I'm on the home page and I just clicked on past meetings CPAs meetings clicked

on that and it's very easy to I mean

it's excellent yeah it's very you know I think it's like you said earlier it's important

um select month um select year and a year it's pretty easy

it's a design we can't change a design but also I I think it's important to to

make this as easy as possible for people to navigate for people there there may

be people in the community who are interested in getting involved but who may not have the most up-to-date

computer skills so I think it needs to be as simple as possible drop down menus could

hamper someone who doesn't have the best computer skills yeah and a lot of people are limited to

using phones for internet access to right and this design works really well on phones right

um that said I I completely understand um the request and it's it um it is how

the old site worked um and so it's it's totally natural for me to to hear that request from somebody

to want to have it set up on the new site the same way um so I totally understand that and I

know commissioner jadonik as I told you I'm happy to talk to commissioner Stone about it too in person

do you have any thoughts questions um well on this particular point about the drop

downs well I think you know as Amy said I think they've this is sort of like built into the

design of the site so we kind of have to respect what they provided and um

I I think it's it's just kind of a new way of very clear um

a new navigation style which I think is fine it's it's nice

um okay so then the next point there's one about the contact us

um yeah that actually exists on here now um the there's email at the bottom it

goes to elections.commission.gov.org is that the right email address

yes that's okay and that actually is hyperlinked so if someone is using it on

a phone it'll open their email client if they click on it probably if I click on my computer too I

never like to do that yes yep there it is yeah it's probably just further down the

page I think than she's than she's envisioning um well that just gave us for we just clicked on contact us at the bottom of

the um committee page and it took us to um uh emergencies maybe of past meetings

just took us to emergencies it didn't take us interesting

oh contact us oh I see yeah that's in the yeah that's in the very very footer

of the site itself and that goes to 3-1-1 I believe okay yeah it's an

emergency but yeah you're right that that meeting list view page does not show the contact information for the

Department I can make a note of that and pass on that feedback who who checks that email box

elections commission at sfgov.org yeah

our our email normally it's the commission secretary so I'm I'm hoping

that president stone is checking here okay

all right so then the um the next suggestion is around

you know this is something we've discussed in the past having

you know demographic information about the commissioners self-identified as well as like

surfacing some of the the things like you know the pronouns titles appointing

authorities and Amy

were there um did you have things to say about that were there ways to surface some of that

information yeah I actually um I already ticketed one point on here with our team

um the pronouns and making those visible on the agency page I think that is a I

think that's very actionable um pronouns that the pronoun module that's built into the profile page is

pretty new to sf.gov it's I think it's been there for just a couple months

um and I think there was talk even when they look when they made it live of

whether or not they would have the pronouns display on the agency page when that view was pulled in

um and I I think they just I think they decided not to for space

considerations but I can give them the feedback that someone has asked for it

um I I think it's a good idea um and so I ticketed that

um I did get some a response a partial response that um there's ongoing work and that's internal to our content

management system that's going to be going on over the next um probably a couple of months

um and it's probably going to be a little while before they make any improvements like that on the site

um even though it's something that feels very small um there's kind of a big back end

project on the site that's coming up um that's going to be it's going to really affect the way the site is

organized on the front um and it affects the way our Engineers work on the site

um and so it's I don't know without without having to explain too too much of what's going

on behind the scenes um it'll make it difficult for people to make that kind of small structural change

um and so they're trying to limit it to things that are like emergencies um so I did raise it if it becomes a really

critical issue I can um I can wave a flag and raise it higher

um Amy I'm sorry are you talking specifically about the pronouns

[Music]

yes they're on your individual Pages yeah um it sounded like commissioner Stone wanted them to show on the agency page

okay we'll go back also my mother my years I was reappointed by the mayor in

2023 through 2028 so that needs to be updated yeah we can fix that for sure

because otherwise I'd be all um okay question um

so oh I see so you want to put it under each person on the agency page

yeah I think the suggestion there was to make some of that basic information just available

okay yeah um I mean I definitely see the benefit of that because

it it makes it's one less step people have to do if that's all they're looking for right and our designers when they

look at it will weigh that benefit against um against the fact that it's going to

mean that there's more on the page and every item of information you add to a page starts kind of competing for a

user's attention um it also when you add more to the page it gets a little bit harder to use on

mobile so they will look at that very carefully when they get to consider it

um and that's that's basically how they'll make the decision is like does the benefit of having this pronoun

appear on an agency page outweigh the potential drawback for other users who might have a harder time with the

display if there's more information I do think that having the other information there is likely going to be too much for

the display I'm happy to ticket it for our Engineers to look at anyway um actually my suspicion is that's going

to be the response but yeah I I actually now that I'm looking at it

um it it's much cleaner it's a much cleaner look it's easy to find I did the

previous uh website I found it kind of hard to find that and when you looked at it on the phone it looked completely I

love it I mean this is yeah this is quite clean and you just click yeah it's all there yeah and then on

your phone you can you can navigate that fairly easy so I yeah and I think most

people understand that you would have to click on those because well and here's

the thing you know what they want to get in touch with Cynthia it's right there yeah yes I mean all the information is

there her name who she's appointed by yeah her duration you know email

yeah so I I understand Robin's impetus to want to make that very to make that

on the agency page but it I think it would just make it look a little

um for lack of a better word sloppy as Lord knows to this letter thank you cluttered is the word much more uh

cluttered than than it is like this no yeah we talk about how information has a

cost for users and the more information is on a page um the more information users are having

to interpret as they're as they're looking over the page and looking for the information they want so we try to

limit it to just what's essential um but yeah I think the pronouns are worth considering um because it's

relatively short and um yeah it's it's worth looking at um

and I can flag the other information too and see what they decide okay you've got two other items on this

agenda besides this so let's get through this homepage yes so

okay and then the other last point that President Stone said was removing the event section and that's already been

taken care of I think that was a bug so yes okay so

um yeah since we do have other things to discuss today were there any other um sort of questions you wanted to ask

Amy while she's here and then we can kind of

going through the overall outline order of sections

check out screenshots I mean what what is she objecting to no so that was a document that I put together

it's got my name at the top so so this document all it is it's this is basically the same elements that Amy

went over with like the different options we have alert boxes for and as a

document form it's great yeah I like the web the new yeah that you've done right

I really do and um yeah I think it's excellent yeah great I'm glad to hear that

well great thank you again Amy for for being available and we'll be in touch

about you know the stuff we talked about earlier regarding okay engaging with the

public so terrific and feel free to reach out any of you if you have questions or follow up thank you thank you so much

maybe okay all right thank you thanks have a good night

well this morning I could very easily like print out stuff and read it and look at

it yeah and and put it on I have see I created a bot a folder this morning

okay so let's so let's kind of resume our discussion um

so there are a couple of things I thought we could do with the remaining time in the site number one is I think

we could talk about are there any you know recommendations we want to adopt or things

you know like sections you want to edit website and then secondly I thought we could

spend a little bit of time about talking about like what would be the process for changing the website like is this

something that we should you know just delegate to the president or should we um do we want to have it so

that whenever something is added to the website the commission you know needs to approve that

or um I think um I think it could be dealt I think it'd be can be delegated to the

president but the president needs to inform us when she makes a change right I would agree with that okay so then did

you have any other thoughts on that well I guess I think the concern would be if it's if it's something very um you know

like if we want to have a web site about you know a policy area that could

potentially have a lot of different documents um

um maybe people have different opinions about that and and would would you that's really just kind of the well can

we carve out exceptions I mean because here's the deal you don't want to we we have to be able to

function and this is the issue with bureaucracy is that every time you make one move it's got to be a vote and

nothing gets accomplished so I would say you need to give the president latitude in which she also informs us what she's

doing but on big issues if there's something that um likes redistricting we would all we

would have to approve something like that and what about sure delegating that to

you as the vice president um and then any you know because she I I

would assume she's got a lot of her plate and it's it's something that you're interested in doing and then if

there are any substantive changes then we would be notified I don't I

don't I don't think we have to be notified as a commission on every single

change to the website no no I mean but if we delegated that to you to kind of look at and think about and then

I mean couldn't you send you know um screenshots or um

or is that too much well I think I guess I'm thinking more about

like substantive things like new like not just restyling things but like

maybe you know editions of like collections of documents and things oh like

because um and I'm also not thank you you know and we're going to

have rotating offices over the years and stuff but um like if we

if we say oh we want to have a page about open source voting or redistricting or racial Equity what is

the process we're going to use to decide what documents are going to go on these different pages because that's a lot of

a lot of decisions there and [Music] um yeah do we want to like approve every

individual document or do we just say we're going to authorize so and so to maintain this page and they can use

their judgment or and I don't have the answer but this is just a question see what you're asking

that's different um so more about

the substance yeah um I would also say that um first to go

one step further um a lot of the Road changes can be done by the

secretary and she should be changed she should be trained because you're turned out and this is an issue right yeah well

that goes without saying yeah yeah those words saying but um I don't know

that we could come up with a policy today I I do think it's on and like I'm an as needed basis in terms of how we

decide I mean I think I think there has to be consensus when we're talking about policies yeah yeah

I mean but for example if if we were okay with just the blanket policy will be we always authorize the president to

make the decisions then that can be it you know but if if we wanted if the

commission wanted more visibility into things that are getting posted then it would need to be

something a little bit what would be the rationale for us because I I mean I trust that people are

going to put things on the website that are appropriate and that that are within the scope of our work so what would be

the reason for us having to approve it um

maybe if I mean hypothetically in the future maybe if there's a you know Commissioners in the future that don't

agree with certain things and they have opinions I mean I'm just sort of anticipating okay

um but if it's a document that's put on the the website within the scope of our

work yeah then does it really matter if people don't agree with it

um or am I just being too simplistic well I mean if it's if it's a policy the commission agrees with then I think

you know it should be fine but um like I mean I don't want someone I mean

it would be out of the scope to put your personal opinion about something yeah well I don't you know what I mean yeah I guess I guess I would have to see the

situation but I don't know that you would go on any one commission website and there might be a policy but I don't

know that they would provide a company documentation to back up their

policy per se because I know I know one of the suggestions and I think it was in Robin or president Stone's

her goal document she you know suggested having a website section on different strategic

priorities you know where we'd have a page on Equity or open source voting and redistricting and there I think you

would want to have different documents I guess it just depends on what they are but I don't know

I see and we don't have to decide this today but it's it's just but it's something that we need to think about

yeah make a decision yeah okay okay I I I don't know if I agree with

that I I think that you can have a policy but I don't I would want to you know what I think that that's something

you have to look into best practices and see what like other commissions do and what other bodies do what what did

what does the Board of Supervisors do I don't know I don't know I think I

think that we're not the Library of Congress yeah I know for agenda packets it's very

easy because you just post the materials and you're not really it's not supporting a stance or anything right

but um right and we are apolitical

I think that that's something that you need to check in with the uh the uh DCA am I am I saying the letters

correctly oh okay

so because any kind of research or whatever that we might put up

it could be flawed you could I mean you just State your policy I know what

you're saying Chris but I I just think I think that's a slippery

slope for a commission do

but I do think you ought to check with the DCA start there

and see if there are any if if somehow that's out of the scope before we're supposed to yes okay

it doesn't hurt to do that yeah it certainly doesn't hurt I mean I like

just my own personal opinions I don't see a problem with you know posting information about topics the commission

is supportive of but um I do think there's a question of how do you decide what to post what to post and what not

yes and so yeah like I said I don't think we have to decide all this stuff today but

it's it's worth I I do feel like we should given that we've met it would be nice if we can have some kind of come

out of this meeting with some recommendations of things we want to add to our website I know like do we want to

um you know recommend that we we um

commissioner bile yeah like self-identifying information you know information about demographics and Who We Are

so the so the bio would be um in addition to demographic

information other information about us or well let's see

what what did Mr President Stone right well there's two aspects one is the

aggregated demographic information like when it comes to our appointing authorities they might want to know well who is the commission made up of today

and then there's also [Music] um I think that's more what I was thinking

about rather than maybe under your bio if someone wants to say I'm from this community

I think on the bio is going to make a suggestion I think we should have a word limit

oh for sure yeah absolutely now we should ask Amy what

they what she recommends wins yeah I agree with that but I thought okay there should definitely be a word limit well

how do how do people feel about having demographic information about totally fine with that I think that's very

important um for the City and County of San Francisco for people to look at this body and see

whether they feel it's representative photos

most people most that's not always an indicator yeah no I know but but I'm

just that's I don't mean it in that context I just in general yeah most commissions do most commissions do yeah

so what about if in terms of demographic information should we also have it

should it just be only aggregate or should we also include that in the Bios voluntarily or

well it probably has legally it has to be found you can't make people right

put their demographic information will any commissions do it in aggregate

I think I think there's a report from the commission of the commission on the status of women where they come out with

a report saying X number of right but the no I don't know of any commission site that provides an aggregate look at

their composition yeah so this is we would be maybe one of the first I think I think

that would be great um in particular because of who we are

because we have oversight over the Department of

Elections and that elections are so important I think it would be really important to have that

information okay so then maybe we could have a motion then that

we we move that we recommend we have a page which it discusses our aggregate

demographics and then a patient okay it's about the commission can you have

like uh under about the commission yeah something like that we can work with not a whole separate page but like a couple

of sentences um section yeah I mean I guess we'd have to work with Amy to figure out how best to do

that yeah and not to get it too cluttered yeah that was definitely what I was looking

for okay so okay so I I made a motion and commissioner levels he seconded it

um to have this demographic information little section um well let's let's take public comment

here on this item it's been um

okay so opening it up to public comment on agenda item number one purposes

number three elections commission website

okay I don't see any commenters with their hands raised okay so okay so take a roll call vote on

this motion or unless there's any further discussion okay seeing none commissioner Hayden Crowley uh yes

commissioner levolski yes and I character yes okay are there any other um

motions we want to make today about either the content of the website or the or the process for anything no I just

think that there's some unanswered questions that have we have to go back and ask Amy about and then we can make a

recommendation right right okay will you take that on

um yeah was is there anything beyond what we've just okay no okay sounds good well great so let's move on

4. Approval of Minutes of Previous Meetings

to the next item agenda item number four approval of minutes of previous meetings discussion possible action to

approvement minutes for the August 10th 2022 and January 31st 2023 book meetings

okay so on this item I'll just tell you the the draft minutes were prepared but

they were posted very late so I don't think it's probably better that we don't

wrote anything I think today just because people haven't had a chance to right but they're done at least okay no that's

fine thank you um so

I'm gonna take public comment on this item agenda item number four

okay seeing no members of the public with their hands raised and if anyone has suggestions about the

minutes you know we can do that before the next bopek meeting okay okay so let's move on to

one verse one person here I just wanted to check I'm sure it's

Robin um okay so agenda item number five 2023

5. 2023 Racial Equity Progress Report

racial Equity progress support discussion possible action regarding the elections commissions portion of the Department of Elections upcoming 2023

racial Equity progress report if the commission would like to include an update on its progress through the department submission to the office of

racial Equity the commission will need to submit its update to the director of Elections by Thursday May 4th 2023.

okay so for this item um

basically we have one commission meeting between now and May 4th and the idea would be that we could um maybe

recommend something for the full commission to approve which could then be

oh okay the 19th right so I I'm just gonna first begin by like

just stating with the different packet documents are so we have an email from president Stone

who described the the process for updating the report and we can read that

in a moment and then there's the um the template which is basically a collection of

slides with some instructions and then we also have a draft submission

that President Stone was kind enough to put together that we can use as a starting point

and then she also provided a like a look back of all the different British Equity discussions we've had

during 2022 I think it's like a four or five page document

and then um there's also some email correspondence between

a reporter with the San Francisco Examiner and um president Stone and

and myself where he was asking about you know why we didn't make any progress

in racial Equity so that's just for some for transparency

around and it has some information so um so for this item I thought we

could um just

basically um you know review what president Stone put together but before we do that does

anyone have anything they'd like to say or ask or um

suggestions on how we should proceed and let me pull up

so actually let me let me read um the instructions that President Stone in

put together it's very short yeah let's see it here

oh no that's page through here

how important is composition of the commission to this

but we don't have control over it I know we don't but

how important is it because you know in my mind that's the most important thing if you if you don't

have a commission even though we have no power to

appoint a point we do we can say that it's that is it is of

important um significance to have a

commission that represents the populations of the city

um and if if we were doing that um this commission probably would look a

little different and so if we say that I don't see any

problem with that we have no power but it's a recommendation

yeah so I um because you you're never going

to have racial Equity if you don't have representation right I I I support that I that I did

have a suggestion around that topic um would you mind if I just

um just read the part about the instructions for absolutely so I'm I for some reason I can't find the paper

version of this no there was a it was a one-page email oh from Robin oh from Robin I think I do

have it but there were two emails

yeah well let me just read I have it on my computer so let me just read from

here it says so I am sharing the template City departments and commissions are asked to use for

communicating Equity related progress and future priorities so slides one through eight walk through

how to input the commission's information and she says importantly the commission will need to develop one to two slides

regarding last year's progress and an additional slide for future priorities

and then the commission will share these slides with the Department to be integrated in what the Department's suggestion so then president Stone she

put this draft it has starts out with elections commission it's got uh two pages of past progress and then

one page of future goals so and this this is where we can fit

into the the comment you just made about composition the commission right that could totally fit there yeah

so I have it at what you're just looking

are you able to find this can you

I have it here did you want to look at it

I think I I think actually I have it that's what I'm pulling up with the instructions

yeah okay yeah okay and do you also have this this one

the draft version I have it on my laptop okay I don't have

it yeah I think so commissioner I have it oh great great

foreign I mean unless unless people have any

other suggestions on how to proceed I was I was thinking we could basically review what she put together and then discuss

if we want to make any changes to it okay

so

so I I basically I had two suggestions for what she put together and one is in

terms of the past progress I thought would it be worth adding a point saying

that um we had sought to open up the competitive selection process to allow a diverse

group of applicants for the director position yep and that's something we we tried for it was definitely covered a

lot in the media it started a lot of conversations but even though we were

not you know successful in that I don't even think we have to say that I think we could say that it was It was a

um decision to move forward and to open up the process

for racial equity and you know that I think that's all we have

to say I mean I think everyone knows what happens right but I definitely think that we should say that that was that was that was the reason for it

I guess I would add because I voted against it because I do think Equity also includes

um uh your service and your the the and

which I you know we we haven't yet finished reviewing uh director Arns I think

mentioning that was a fortitude decision because it wasn't a unanimous decision I think that's yeah absolutely

okay so then I think this would go under external because it's not about

oh I see it's not about internal under the commission it's okay so so then

so we could use um you know commissionable zero language and then we could include in parentheses

this was a 4-2 vote it needs to be parentheses and a fortitude okay and a 42 yeah

I'm commissioner Lewis would you like to draft the exact language for that I mean

it doesn't have to be right now but um what's the due date because I just need to put on my calendar I think

I think for the next commission meeting um which is next week it's a week from Wednesday

okay and I think does it matter that I'm not going to be here oh no it doesn't I

think that um Cynthia probably has one form or another

in all those talking points has the language okay yeah I just if people have

questions that's my only concern people have questions about it I'm not going to be here first do you want to present it

yeah I could I could present that maybe do you want to just give one cricket

okay sure do this Friday Friday um before noon let me put that on my

calendar okay okay and then

and then my other my other suggestion was in terms of the future goals

I thought we could

I'm getting lost here in the papers um I thought in line with your suggestion I thought

we could have um you know create a process to contact the

appointing authority whenever there's a vacancy to basically let them know about the current composition of the

commission and encourage them to to think about racial yes yeah okay I just

want you to know I represent the seniors in this group that's an important constituency it is

absolutely majority of the voters fortunately

Okay so yeah so those are my just to kind of my suggestions and then

did you want me to do that language as well I want to just um the language for yeah if you could I mean if you'd like

to okay that'll be helpful yeah I'm just writing this down language

working I'm sorry you just told me um to to create a process to contact

okay the appointing authority whenever a vacancy occurs and to encourage them to

you know attune to let them know the demographics and encourage them to

you know to consider racial consideration

well original gender and age I mean there's all kinds of different things that figuring right but this is

specific to racial equity isn't it diversity

um well and um I don't know what do you think

I mean I think I think it can Encompass a lot of different things and

I mean certainly I think a letter can say it can say multiple things but in the in the slides for the racial Equity

goals it's race maybe we'd want to focus on that I always okay I I it says

specifically because when I worked on this before not with this group but it was Dei diversity equity and inclusion

right but this is a very specific um what is an equity practice

racial Equity so let me see so that's that's what we're trying to focus on I

know I'm looking to make sure about about that because

well I mean d-e-i-b-j goals diversity Equity inclusion

I mean what about LGBT that's not racial that's gender

but this is actually asking about race though where is it

so the the racial equity action plan okay where it says racial

Equity action plan right except that when we go through it it's d-e-i-d-g-a

right but I think in the city and county of San Francisco um we don't want to talk about race but

we need to talk about race hey I just think it's broader than that okay if they do say racial Equity plan

over and over again okay I think maybe that

the um

I mean I think maybe what the issue is there is that those are gen items were a little broader but the this particular

report is is focused on the racial Equity yeah

foreign

Okay so so I had I had made a couple suggestions and then commission levels he had

your offering to put the language together and then um

I think I think we're going to want to have a motion where we we you know move

to approve a version of these of these slides but before we do that

um are there any other edits to what president Stone had

well I'm not sure about bullet number two on 2023 goals establish a more Equitable open and competitive selection

process for the director of Elections position I don't know what where we're going with that

because where are you I'm sorry I'm looking at 20 oh 20 23 goals I I don't know what

that what this isn't the version that President's doing oh yeah I I I know it's what it's

in response to we're five years away from the next one and I get where we're

kind of going but that seems I I don't know I'm a little I just

I'm a little uncomfortable with it that's all I just think what is that very important I mean where are we going

I mean what what does it mean what how I I guess we won't know till we do it

which bullet I'm sorry number two a step number two establish I mean it's been competitive stuffing process for

director of election physician I mean can we not ask clarification

um well I mean I I think I I think it's I mean I I can tell you what I think it means I mean I think it's

I mean basically we we try to to do this process last fall where we had a

selection process and then we found we ran into some roadblocks and I think what we learned from that

process is that we didn't prepare in advance because you know one of the things that

supervisor president said oh you needed to start this process years ago so I think all this goal is is basically

let's do the things in advance that we need to do so that the next time around

we can go forward with it right one of the things that peskin also said was was you know

informing um other bodies about this so I I agree

that it's five years out but we can start looking at making sure

that we have the steps that were suggested now so that when we get there

if we have another situation where we want to make that vote that change we have everything in Prof in in process

and able to do it I mean it's just like with redistricted it's not coming up right for some time

but we're setting everything up so when we're there we have everything that we we need so I agree with it in concept

and what I and Chris knows that I think that we should be moving the review date

of the director to July in order to

facilitate about that July okay I just I think the implication is is that

I don't know there's something about this I I think it just I think it needs to be

I mean I'm bubbling over language but is it the just the wording of the item yeah it's the converting I know it's not that

establishing in other words in a transparent would be a word I would use as opposed to open open

um uh transparent because you know that also communicates that we would be

communicating with a broader group um

I don't think we were ever not going to be Equitable I guess in terms I get I

guess what I don't like about it is implies that we wouldn't have been Equitable I think that we would have been

um and I oh I see and I think establish a more Equitable meaning what about last

time right okay and I think the other part of it is is that it also needs to be fair to the person

in the position because we did not review him and that was something I brought up at the very

beginning of it that he needed to be reviewed and had we done that

um and I have talked to Chris about this I think that that would have put us in a

much better position for number one achieving consensus and number two

um um just you know putting us on the the

right track yes and I also think

a more Equitable way of looking at this is that there's more clarity about our

role and that at the end of five years it's not an automatic renewal and that

is something that should be clear

um because we have the it's our purview to decide to renew or open up the process

and invite that person in the seat too I I guess I would join the the process

process but I'm not I think because of the the length of time

you know I agree with you and I think because there hadn't been an open process for how how long 20 years 20

years ago yeah that's a long time so I think it's easy given that time

frame to make assumptions so I think what could make it more

Equitable next time is to make it very clear in our language that it's it is up

for opening right it's not an automatic

because the I and I don't know if it was an assumption but it appears that it was an

assumption for everyone not just

um the director if that wasn't assumption I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think that there was an

assumption that because there hadn't been an open process in 20 years that we

didn't have the purview to do it so I think it would be more Equitable to you

know clarity as a gift right right I said this that's the thing

so we need to be fair to but I guess my point is so being clear now so that the

next five years it's not a question but not just to the director which is of course

yes to the director but also to other

of the appointing agencies at you know everyone involved that this is our purview

and so everyone needs to understand that the next time around it's not necessarily

going to be automatic so I and that's to me that's Equitable because that's making it clear that at

at the onset of every five years there's a possibility that the commission whether it's us or other commission

Commissioners may want to for racial Equity reasons for a various number of

reasons want to open up this process so does that make sense yeah I do I I

just I would say establish a more establishing I don't know if I want to say more

establishing a timely transparent and Equitable selection I like timely

transparent and and Equitable process I like that yeah just remove and remove

the word power yeah but I would start with Timely transparent transparent and Equitable

process because the timeliness is important and the transparency would be

every five years it can open up if we wanted to and again I guess it goes to

the fact that we have we have this responsibility we have this Authority but we also have a

responsibility to whoever is in the position of the director of Elections

Merit but but there's Merit involved and and Merit is part of equity someone who

has been there who's performed and we and I and it's hard to evaluate that

without a review and we went forward without a review

well I don't think it has to do with the review because it there's there's nothing that says that we have to have a

review in order to open up a process however it makes sense exactly to to to do the

review first but I don't think we need to pigeonhold ourselves to having to have a view I think it should be a best

practice but it doesn't I don't think it has to be a requirement well not now but if we

establish a timely transparent and Equitable process we may decide that review is part of that right right right

I agree we're splitting errors now yeah okay I just want to be fair to everybody

absolutely absolutely but I but I think you're when I think of the timeliness

I'm thinking in terms of making it clear now that it is the

purview of the election commission to open up the process and to be Equitable

that will be done in a manner that is respectful and

um judicious to the person in the position

yes okay we're on the same page okay so then just to just to um so I

understood when you said timely transparent Equitable and Equitable process what about open and

competitive selections I don't like I I just think timely transparent and Equitable is enough

but what's the rest of the sentence Oh process for the director of Elections position but well you need the

competitive there because it's a competitive process it's it's not we're not selecting the person we're opening

it it up to individuals to apply and then we look at those individuals and

decide okay you can add the fourth adjective I believe in groups of three

so whatever right but we also but I really do believe it works really sounds

that's what it is I I like your groups of Threes And we have to make sure that

it's clear that it is competitive process we're not because I I think the concern I have is

if we say timely transparent Equitable selection process for the director of

electricity you could you could assume that we are selecting and that's not

what we're doing we would be opening up the process through a competitive

selection well how about take out the word selection

if without the word selection it's not clear that you're referring to the hiring process it's just

no you'd have to have

Okay so okay so then so then the the wording is established a

more timely transparent and equitable competitive selection process for the

director of Elections yeah okay okay great good okay and then anything else either on

the goals or I think I'm a lot I think Robin did a

lot of work for us yeah I'm very thankful that she spent the time putting it together

yeah it's great she also did a lot of research too tremendous resources and Imagination I

mean I don't mean that in a negative way imagination because I'm just not this this is a lot of work yeah it definitely

is okay so then so would someone like to make the motion

and I I could um basically we want to recommend to the full commission and

then we had the two edits and then this and then the third edit we just discussed that we accept it with the

edits and recommend it to the commission sounds good a second

by commissioner lavosi okay so let's um

let's open it up this item to public comment we are on agenda item number is it

number five number five yes in the racial Equity progress report we see um

one person with their hand raised I'm unmuting you this is

Mr Turner you have three minutes Commissioners I just wanted to say on behalf of the

public thanks for any and all attention to racial Equity issues we recognize

that your purpose over the last 15 years in attempting to move the voting systems

toward a protectable style and software is based in attempting to make sure that

there is racial Equity generally in elections and thank you for your action

tonight thank you okay thank you Mr Turner

and there are no other people with their hands raised

okay so are there any other is there any other discussion before we take a vote on the motion

okay um the roll call then commissioner Hayden Crowley yes commissioner lavosi

yes and I church or not include yes so the motion passes unanimously

okay is there anything else on this item before we

um so then you'll get the text for the two so this is to me okay Friday um afternoon great thank you question Lucy

okay anything else okay so then let's move on to the next

6. Process to Conduct Future Annual Performance Evaluations

item agenda item number six process to conduct future annual performance evaluations of the director

of Elections discussion and possible action regarding the process to conduct future annual performance evaluations

it's just the same language repeated so this refers to after the the one that

is currently in progress okay so there were there were three packet documents for this there was

first the um the guidelines that the commission adopted back in March 2016.

then there's the current template that we use are we using this year

and then there's and I'll say more about these two documents in a second but and

there's also a document that was I pulled up from the the meet commission meetings in 2018

where we spent we must have discussed like for 10 meetings what process we

wanted to use in this particular document came up in the packet I think four times

and and if you look at the um the comments in the margin you could see that

they're sort of struggling with how do we um like measure some of these these goals

that the commissioner was discussing at the time so so for this item um you know

obviously we have quite a bit of time before the the next evaluation but I thought it's worth we

could start brainstorming now I know commissioner levels you've had some suggestions at past meetings

and commissioner Hayden Crowley I know you you had something you just mentioned earlier but um

but yeah who would like to to kind of start off with the discussion

well I I did want to bring out commissioner Hayden Crowley's point about having the review in July I really

think that's a great idea um and then you know the clear language about

I mean I think we would have to check league with um City attorney but at the queer

language that this review is is not an automatic

renewal we could open up the process

well we can't open the process for five years we're just talking about the review itself just the review itself okay yeah sorry so we're just talking

about the way we review it but I do think that we should we need to move it

to July um June 30th is the end of the fiscal year so it's a natural time to do the

review and um it also is before the election but we

typically will have had one behind us and it's just not as I think we need to

be very thoughtful about it and have some steps in place which we can't possibly consider all tonight but

there should be in order to do something not just say we're going to do a review in July I Really they feel like you've

got to have you got to know what you're going to do each week to to move it forward you know

like a checklist to move it forward because um things just don't move forward it

drives me crazy and and I you know so to say we're going to review oh okay here pass this out you

know we need that you know there needs to be things in place in maybe May and June so that we actually do do this in

July so so three steps yeah so if we have if we

know the date is July then perhaps there could be pre-steps in our

even April May yeah uh meetings and then perhaps give people because we're all we

have lives outside of our wonderful right Mission work um to perhaps have June be that time

where you actually you know you have the three steps we're doing it right now and then June is that time where you

actually make sure that you get your stuff in for the July review I mean at this rate

we will have reviewed John in July right because we haven't finished the review but but to your point

if we have the pre-steps and we're all on board with what those pre-steps are we start as early as April

yes saying we have a review coming up

um it is scheduled for July um this is the missionaries need to get

these I can't I'm just just saying whatever those things are in process so

that we're we can hit the ground running yes yes absolutely absolutely and and uh

so this particular process we're going through right now with John we've had

now two meetings where we've discussed them and we're going to have a third are we it's on the agenda I assume are we

even going to get through it in in April do you think I'm not I'm not sure okay well I think

the thing that we should suggest that we should think about is are we allowed to have a meeting that's solely dedicated

to one thing because perhaps that's the problem is our agendas are too packed

and if if we know as you're as you said that we are going to have

these pre-steps that get us there then perhaps our June

meeting the meeting before is dedicated to that so that we uh and

maybe we have a limited agenda I think it's a really really good idea

I really do because um because as we get into the summer months

I hope it's a little less frenzied so to speak it is I mean I can speak for

myself yeah as a dib director at an independent school yeah my summers are fabulous okay I can get some work done

but I I think that's what we need to do right and then we if we have the date we

have it set June is set then for those of us like myself and many other people who travel yeah during June and July

um you know the dates yeah so you can schedule your vacations around yeah do you know what I mean yeah I mean just

being practical as human beings yeah you know people like to get away yeah oh yeah so if we have that set and and then

because I do think our agendas are overly ambitious too much and and we we need to that that

is extremely important if we're thinking about how we look as a commission it's the most important thing we do well

exactly if we want to not um make mistakes of the past that's a

place where it's in our discretion let's just have that June meeting be dedicated

to that and if we have to go into closed session we go into closed session if we have to open go back into open you know what I mean it just I think we we just

need to dedicate that June meeting to that process yeah and we're doing that

we're focused and then we can come out of it in a much better place I love that idea

I love it love it love it and I I also liked the idea that you said earlier

going into that meeting having all the information yes so yes yes right

preparing the pre-planning the pre-planning I make three

to something right you have to hate last one

yeah what's that what's the saying hey Smith's voice yeah yeah but speaking of the pre-planning um

like you had mentioned it at a meeting the idea of having like Anonymous

surveys or something like that so to get feedback from in front of the community yeah I mean not the community but from

um I mean where I currently am employed as a director didib and being on the

leadership team at this at the school um all employees are able as well as for

our head of school to give an anonymous review of

you know and I think it's very beneficial for

for people to have that Anonymous opportunity and for the director to have

the feedback feedback is is essential um you know what's the morale what are

you know all those kinds of things in the office because if people can anonymously review the director

um then there is a as long as there's no legal or civil servant there may be some rules around them you

know we would need to check legally at what the rules are with the EHR I think you know that kind of feedback is is I

mean I definitely benefit from it yeah in my current position and that's where

you know organizations are going in for the most part and I think it was

um commissioner Parker who brought up like three he would be good to um I think so yeah yeah to work on this

process I I can contact dhr2 and see what what that but she would be good

food yeah I mean I think as part of the brainstorming we're doing today we could maybe have some what's the word like

not tasks but just research topics that people could could do

um but yeah it is a research topic like what are What are the what are we allowed to do in terms of

the surveys to find out what part of the legal because there's there's also Jonathan the director of Elections is a

member of the municipal Executives Association not as a union right but he's appointed

so he's not a civil servant he is a civil service at least everybody here is a civil servant okay I didn't realize I

thought he was yeah there's Civil Service protections even with appointments with a point okay yeah and

also with the mea okay so there's rules around that and there's rules at DHR

yeah of course and I I mean I I can certainly check into that I've got relationships in both places okay

and that way we know as a former mea member excellent I would still

I know another thing well you just mentioned it was the the idea of having smart evaluation like this um

like what what steps do we need to have in place to allow us to to do that during our process like setting goals

for example measurable things and right that

yeah sorry I just had a um um well Chris let me let me just uh

think aloud here we have to finish the process that we have and nothing's going to change that we're

not going to start anything new so this is for next year and we would be starting

at the latest April but we may even back it up to March yeah for sure you know because we have to

decide what those steps are going to look like so we are giving ourselves enough time between now and March to

come up with a new process and we're designating June as the time that we

find that we solely dedicate yes to yeah the review with the idea of

finishing being done in July yeah

yeah so I think in terms but if to do what is it what's the phrase for it you

posted I think so 360. oh 360. yeah like is there anything that 360. I was

confusing with the the smart and the racial Equity number um

like does that mean that we have to have

certain things in place at the beginning of the year to do that at the end of the year like it we need to have

um like written down it doesn't require a budget to do this so

well in May because 360 for example where I worked with that that process is

is a a survey and that data is kept many organizations

use culture amp which is not cheap

we don't have money for it so we that's where we would ask is there something

that DHR already has in process is there a tool that they already have

I'll ask um God will write down culture app I'll ask

I yeah it's expensive I think that I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say right now

the budget deficit was 720 million and it was growing yeah I know and so I

think um and that doesn't mean though that we can't do some you know there may all

that's why I'm saying there may already be a tool that vhr has that that we

could use for this process yeah yeah and so we don't have to bring in so I I just

think of culture because it's a lot of organizations use it it's a great they're very secure with their data and

all that but it's a private entity that has a cost yeah so it's just an example

um of what we can I mean we use Survey Monkey for our our head of school

process or for the the 360 review so every employee is required to evaluate our

head of school using that tool now really yeah and this is totally Anonymous yeah

I mean feedback I think is is essential yeah that's a very interesting concept

um yeah I'll just see well first what I'll do is

um I think what we can do today is we can agree on a new timeline that we're recommending to the commission that

we're investigating it and then I'm more than happy to look into

um what we can and can't do I think we have to to work with DHR and with

talk to this City attorney um and also MEA

um because we don't want to create any kind of uh what's any what's Nea Municipal

executive assistant okay um it's a union and

uh but in terms of you know

what all that I mean I I didn't look carefully at at the um

the forms that you had printed out I'm going to be honest I

didn't um because I knew we had fill I'd filled that one already and I thought no this

is good yeah good enough um so

what we're doing now is we're using this one right a little bit yeah okay and I think this

is where we're starting with where we're going to go is a whole other different story

right all right so I guess

and I don't think this is anything that we can address today I want to take this one but what what what's good and what's

bad about this well we need to ask the

entire commission but yeah yeah but you know I mean I think if you know in terms

of talking about this we've agreed on the timeline although we probably need to have a motion on that

um but in terms of content I don't think we can make a decision about any of that I agree yeah yeah I mean we could

definitely start talking about it today I mean we have but I mean one of the things I can see

is I think one of the deficiencies in the current form is that some of the um

like the areas on which we're evaluating the director it's a

little bit vague and maybe it's not it's not really clear how to measure

you know I think one of the things that and this may be part of the 360 review I'm not too familiar with the process but

like having goals that are more quantifiable where you can actually

be a little more objective about it right so and that's something that you we'd want to start earlier rather than

because you don't want to be setting the goals at the end right obviously that's too late

um one one other thing I one other the last idea I had I wanted to run this by you

but um in terms of like the kind of information we want to have going into the process like

I think it and this might have been mentioned before but I think it'd be useful to have an idea about the

employee turnover like how many people you know leave each year and how many people come in each year

yes and I think it would be important to specify

um yeah you mentioned the number of people who are civil servant who are not civil servant right and who are

temporary because the department hires a large number of temporary

contract employees who only work for a specified period of time um and so what what does that look like

are those people constantly new people are those people who return what you

know what is their experience like I think that'll be so it it sounds simple but I think it's a it's

more complex given that the department hires so many temporary employees and I

think it would also be important to look at the the demographics as well because

are we hiring certain people just for temporary who are the Civil you know what I mean who

yeah who are those things up the demographics wasn't John put that up

um I can't remember I'm sure it's an enough it may it may be there right yeah

I was I was interested just at least as a start the the non-temp which I think there's Maybe

there aren't that many yeah 20 or something or yeah what yeah yes I think we start with the non-temp but I think

it's also important to look at because it's such a large number yeah that that actually come in and work in

the department not necessarily people who um I mean we need to think about that

but I think it's a very different situation when people are um whether they inspectors or poll workers

that's a that's also because that's really these are not people who come into things it's a one-day thing and it's a

one-day thing exactly as opposed to people who are contracted or something in my period of time

yeah so that so that's kind of a question like how do we get that information and do we

have access do we have access to information are we allowed to have access to that information we need to find out as well we should but we need

to find out it's a public information public or not yeah everything's public information everything oh is there it is

yeah yeah I mean you know the state secrets that are out there on the internet right now about Ukraine yeah so

is this something that you could bump in with your other researchers that's I think a little of it I I'm going to be

honest I can't can't do a lot of this I have a full-time job right now and I'm on another board so I can check into DHR

and mea I can make a couple phone calls I can't make this my life right well

maybe just get a starting point and hand it off you can start yeah I can make a couple phone calls

okay so that was a good healthy brainstorming

session um did we want to do a motion about the timeline yeah I think so I think we

moved to change the um review process to

a um a pre-planning that could begin as early

as March but leading up to a meeting that is devoted to reviewing the

director in June of each year that we recommend this to the full commission with the final assessment

being delivered in July a second okay great

so well stated um so let's let's open this

um before we do the vote let's take public comment on this item

we have one hand raised so this is [Music] um

Mr Turner I'm unmuting you and you have three minutes to speak uh thank you

again Commissioners uh the public supports the motion but uh also want to

comment that um reviews should include the ability

the ability uh to analyze um lack of forthrightness on the

director's part I don't know if that's part of of the uh of the uh analysis

um lack of forthrightness uh insubordination as far as the the uh

supervisors told him to move toward open source and I think in his relationship

with the Secretary of State's staff there was some intentional

um misinformation imparted regarding voting works his closeness to the vendor

with the emails that are available showing sort of a friendship relationship with golf and

deer and that kind of thing cronyism that that would be good for for points

off I think and should be recognized um there should be I think autonomy also

uh for the for the the commission um we saw the onslaught of uh politics

and pressure coming from Aaron peskin and others uh the last time racial

Equity was mentioned we and and thought to open up the process for review

um we had Tucker Carlson coming in to align with Aaron peskin to basically

protect the uh the the uh director Arts so it

made it's already been so bizarre that I hope that you really tread carefully and

recognize um these people are playing heavy duty chess with the vendors and such they

don't want open source software voting moving forward in San Francisco and

um I think that should be recognized so as you move forward I'm applauding you and wishing you the best but I I just

want you to tread with that knowledge that these folks are um you know they mean business and it's

all about business um so I I appreciate your efforts thank you

okay thank you Mr Turner

okay I see no other hands raised okay so um so we've got some research

you're going to be doing and then yeah a little bit of research

um did we want to somehow recruit commissioner Parker to do some of this I don't know how we could go about that

but she seemed to have an interest as well but um um what do you think

let's see where I get okay yeah let's see what you get first and then see where we can go okay yeah that's true

that's true well if if we

start the process I think we will have enough time

but I I think it's in my opinion it's too early to get home for yeah right now yeah I need to make a couple of months okay

all right well good so let's move on to the next item this is

oh we need to vote oh yeah good point Thank you thank you for reminding me all right so

so we have the motion um take the roll call commissioner Hayden Crowley yes commissioner livosi

yes and I triggered on Expo yes so the motion passes unanimously okay great so now we can move on to

7. Agenda items for future meetings

the um the next item

so this is agenda item number seven agenda items for future meetings

okay so here I I just wanted to call your attention

to another document from president Stone which is that summary email

and she mentioned a couple other topics that we could be discussing this year

well can I just say that I think we need to keep let's look at the current agenda so let's go through the three things we

talked about tonight I think the what was the first thing the website the

website come back to that at all at the next meeting uh for Bill pecker the full commission

um maybe I I think so I think so okay if

I'm understanding you you want us to make sure before we add

any items to this agenda that we well do we make sure that we type the things we

discussed up today for the next book well right and then yeah the other piece of that is when I create an agenda and

uh you always do it based on the previous agenda so I think if we have

some outstanding items on the website that needs to be addressed I don't think they're going to be big I don't think

they're going to take a lot of time no that's a good point the second one was the racial Equity plan but I think

that it's resolved because we moved assuming the commission signs off on it right to get the language to Chris but

then there's the implementation of the actual right the execution of it so yeah but I

think that's more of a that's a that's a commission where's that I mean that that that has

to be done at the commission level well it doesn't have to be I mean well we can't make we can't be

implementing racial Equity goals as three people I think the whole commission yeah we want to hear from the

whole commission they have to I mean I think the pro I think assuming that they they agree to all of the the goals

then then it's the commission and the president that decides how we're going

forward with those goals but is that how is that how committees work subcommittees

I mean I saw it referred up to the committee but I thought could that well we need to find this out we'll have

to ask um the City attorney because I thought we

as a committee can make certain decisions within the purview of this committee well I think we we just did

and we're asking them to approve oh I see got it and then yeah and then once they approve it then then we've got to

implement it then how is it implemented is that and that's up to the president to refer it back to it yeah I mean they

could kick it back to us that's kind of what I was getting at I'm okay got it okay like for example if we have a

process for contacting the appointing authorities she might say let's why don't she puts dress something together

to bring back okay okay okay and then the third thing is the is um the um uh

department head review and there'll be an update on that and probably a plan as

to how we move forward with it um so uh I think we should stick to

those items in our next meeting I don't think we should add to our agenda we were just talking about over english's

agendas I don't know yeah oh of course you do sorry but I'm just going to say one

thing can I get let me just add this this is a commission that as is overly ambitious and I think the

problem is that I'm just going to tell you I'm just glad when you get three things

done every year yeah and if you can if you get three things done you've done a good job

and you've got redistricting out there and I know Chris won't probably wants to talk about open source voting and so we

we I know we need to make time right I don't think we need to take on other initiatives I think I I do agree with

you that we should we're three people uh I work full time yeah we work as well

and I think we should be responsible about what we take on

yeah this is the first time that in this constellation we're meeting

um so I I I would like to see us not add any new items to the agenda and that our

next meeting that we close out these things that we discussed now I will say we meet quarterly not

every month I know yeah I know but that that gives us enough time to get it done

within the work that we're already doing yeah on the commission so I understand that we don't need

every month but that gives us enough time all right I'm going to give a little difference here to Kristen's open

source voting because I know it's very important to him and it's probably something you want to add to the agenda

well it was not something I was going to mention today but I mean obviously it would be great if we

could discuss it um um just because it's been a while

but um but not necessarily for the committee but I really all I wanted to

do on this item was just because she took the time to put the document together just like name some of the

things she mentioned that we didn't discuss today and then and maybe it can be two or three

meetings from now okay okay but um so and this is the email

is this the one three one twenty twenty three yeah it's called and then inside it says bow pet goals

Focus areas yeah yeah so

um you know one of them is um

you know racial Equity this is a topic she has mentioned in the email in the towards the beginning but the the other

ones are competitive selection process which we're doing or no no we we're not doing that we

didn't address that one so she has four things on the last page number one is competitive selection process for the

director of Elections number two is evaluation process for the director of Elections and commission

secretary we kind of started half of that process for evaluating the Department of

Elections budget and then she says anything else so they don't believe anything else is relevant

or necessary um so there's like a couple other ideas

of things we could potentially discuss but I agree with you or this is

a pretty a big stuff this is a lot yeah it's a lot it's a lot and so I just

realized it yeah I'm also thinking about the fact that I'm doing

um some work on redistricting so and that's a lot that's a lot um commissioner die at the moment is

doing a lot of the heavy lifting because of my full-time job but you know there's going to be a lot coming up so I think

we should kind of recognize what the president would like and also recognize our limitations yes

yeah and we can also prioritize the things that are more right and we we have time to kind of shift depending on

what we get from what you're the so whatever I find out you could just you

can email us I can email you but you can't respond to me right

yeah I hold myself back yeah yeah we'll just it'll be information can we say

thank you I don't think so okay I know that's going to be hard I'm gonna

really have to check myself I'll know you're thinking it okay foreign

okay so that sounds good um so let's take public comment on this

item yeah I don't see anyone your hands raised

okay anything else otherwise this um will return the meeting the time

is now 8 20 p.m oh my goodness and have a wonderful rest of the evening everybody