BOPEC (Elections Commission) Special Meeting

hi john welcome everybody this is the uh it's three o'clock let me call to order

this uh special meeting of the uh vopek subcommittee of the elections

commission uh martha if you would read instructions for the public and then take roll call

please i shall okay here we go

welcome to the january 28 2022 special meeting of the budget and

oversight of public elite i'm sorry elections committee this meeting is being held by

teleconference personnel to the governor's executive order

executive order and the 24th supplement to the mayoral proclamation declaring the existence of

a local emergency dated february

25th the minutes of this meeting will reflect due to the covet 19 health emergency and to protect commission

members city employees and the public the meeting rooms of city hall are closed however commission members and

the staff will be participating in today's meeting remotely this precaution

is taken persimmon to the various local state and federal orders declarations

and directives commission members will attend the meeting through webex video conference and par participate in the

meeting to the same extent as is physically present

public will be available on each item on this agenda each member of the public will be allowed three minutes to speak

comments or opportunities to speak during the comment period are available via phone call by calling 415-655-0001

you will need to enter the event number which is two four eight three three two

one six two zero

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file written comments should be sent to elections.commission at san francisco gov dot org thank you

madam president thank you i'm sorry i'm sure yep roll call

uh um i'm sorry commissioner

bernhardt here commissioner chapel

and commissioner jodonick okay with three

present we meet quorum thank you item number two general public comment public comment on any issue

within the subcommittee's elections commission's jurisdiction that is not covered by another item on this agenda is there any

public comment

okay um got a slightly janky connection here but um item number three

discussion and possible action on the resolution on continuation of remote elections commissions meetings um i

think we need to have a motion and a vote on the resolution about continuing to meet

remotely okay we do also have a public com

oh we do back on item yes all right let's go back to that

i'm sorry no it would be on the not on the public comment item number three

okay uh well can i get a motion to move on this resolution before we take public

okay that's so moved thank you a second second okay uh public comment

can you hear me now yes great uh david philpel good afternoon um

as usual i have no objection to the findings i just note that the

text of the findings that's in the packet for today is the commission findings and i would suggest that you

substitute in whole the uh language from opec from october which

is specific to vote back and not commission yeah thank you yeah we'll make that change

thank you any other public comments no that's it

okay uh if there's unless there's any further discussion among the commission we can

vote on this motion with the note to make sure that the language is up uh specific to bill peck

go ahead marthy call the vote sure commissioner commissioner bernhard's

yes commissioner chapel yes commissioner dragonic

yes okay with three in the furniture the motion passes

thank you item number four approval of minutes from the previous meeting we uh discussion and possible action to

approve the minutes from the october 6 2021 bopeck meeting

any discussion by commissioners

we had a motion uh move to approve the minutes from the

prior meeting thank you second

a second thank you is there any public comment yes

one hand raise i will unmute you caller you have three minutes thanks david pilfel again um

once ag again here there are some style and non-substantive uh things for

example on page two somehow fair donaldson appears under uh item five um

if uh if you wanna trust um

commission secretary delgado and and i to work on this with uh

uh chair bernholz's uh uh final approval that would be fine if you want this to

come back then you can put it off uh there's nothing substantive uh that i

would suggest just to clean up some formatting thanks for listening thank you

it's the commissioner chapel is the speaker of the motion are you going to

amend it to include um provisions as suggested by the member of the public yep

move to approve the meetings from the minutes from the prior meeting uh incorporating any changes that the

member of public uh provides subject to president bernhard's approval

thank you

before um you vote um i would i think the best um

course here is actually to make the amendments um and bring it back at a future meeting of the elections

commission or the another boat back meeting um we it's very it's vague uh to say make the

changes requested okay even though they're stylistic and not substantive

um if the mr pilto this is so on

uh unusual but i mean if there are minor things that could be set uh now then

they should probably be uh said and and that should be taken as the revisions

okay uh is mr i'm still here do you want me to summarize on the record very quickly

does that work for the game yes please sure so uh it's still listed as a notice

of special meeting rather than uh minutes um commissioners

that uh i would clarify that um sheriff burnholz was actually

chair of the committee at the time so i think vice chair should be replaced with chair

um throughout i believe at the time the commitment he was fairborn holds uh commissioners jung and chapel so uh

throughout um and i think the rest of it is

like the word here or there but the that's that's the basic thing is to to clean it up into minutes

because nothing else that's the bone substance thank you do you notice

yes i did okay um city attorney flores is that specific

enough uh yes okay there there was also the um

replacing commissioner donaldson with the correct name too i don't know if you mentioned that

thank you all right um so i think unless there's any additional

public comment we can vote on the motion okay um

president bernhard yes yes chapel and yes

commissioner jerdone yes okay with three in the affirmative motion

passes okay item number five department of elections budget proposals fiscal year

2022-23 and fiscal year 23 24 discussion and possible action regarding the department

of elections proposed budget for fiscal year 2223 and fiscal year 23 24.

um i want let me start by thanking director arts and his colleagues at the

department for this very uh comprehensive and accessible

report my understanding uh is that at this

meeting of bopac are we seeking to

uh take action that would move these to the february 14th meeting for approval or

uh do we do that all at once on february 14th because the february 14th meeting

is required so there's anyone

well my understanding is that there just needs to be two public hearings on the budget i don't know if bobek has to take a

positive action today okay in relation to the budget it's just as long as the public has a chance to

provide input got it so if we were to take action it would probably be at the february 14th meeting where okay thank

you director orange for that clarification so again thank you very much for this report um let me defer to

my colleagues see if they have any questions i've got several but i'll wait

commissioner

i think you very much struck turns for the the um materials

um i had a couple questions about a couple topics the first one was on the increased poll worker stipend

and i noticed you only had the stipend increase for the the second of the two

years is that correct right now yes yeah what was the thinking on that

because i if it's something that you thought would be a good idea why not do it for both years

right and potentially we we that might change between now and the the commission meeting uh

the concern that we have is that under the internal revenue service tax code a volunteer who who earns stipends in

excess of 600 must be must be issued a w-2 form uh in

relation to that income uh so if we have multiple we have four

elections this calendar year so even though the fiscal year is from july 1st to june 30th

tax years from january 1st to december 30 first so they're they're different time frames

so with four elections in this calendar year if we were to increase the stipend potentially more poll workers would be

having to the issue w-2 forms up to maybe 2 000 poll workers

and we've been in conversation with the city on how to resolve obtaining the tax information from poll

workers and then issuing the w-2 forms but we didn't want to we didn't want to increase the stipend to exasperate

the poll workers receiving too much in their stipends and when we get into this tax

tax form and tax reporting issues but potentially if we can resolve how

we're going to be gaining the tax information from the poll workers then the city can

then we also understand how the city can issue w-2s in a to these poll workers

uh since they're not employees that we we may ask the the mayor's office before we input into

the the budget system we'll ask the mayor's office to uh provide the the stipend to both fiscal

years not just next fiscal year so it's still an open question it's just a matter of how we're going to resolve the stipend

and tax issues okay sounds good thanks

and then my next questions are around the um there's quite a bit of

material in here discussing the you know the decision of

whether and when to renew the dominion contract there are the two one-year options to renew

and um the my first question is can you explain

like where where is that um decision reflected in the forms like

in the dollar amounts and so on like is there a line item that has the um

that that is impacted by that decision in the dollar forms

and so the contract

is under the professional services

okay

which page is that what's that which page is that yeah i'm looking okay

oh it's on the forums

okay so it's not in the forms but we're just because why oh well so uh it's uh so

part of our budget so we're simply

is it a different category then or uh no it's still not the same about other professional services

but it's not listed it's it's not measurement but it's the the total is in here though

yes yeah yeah so what page is what page do you would you know i'll pop your head with pictures

under form 3a uh commissioner donek then

another other professional self reporter right other professional services so it be on

the the first page of a budget form 3a the title is expenditure changes

at the bottom you'll see other professional services and so the contracts listed in that row

but it's not it's not a it's not a separate line item

okay um all right so

okay so um i guess my next questions are around

um i mean that the the text in the memo

discusses how it's very unlikely that an assist an additional system would be certified

between now and the time by which you'd have to um [Music]

decide whether to to issue an rfp but um [Music]

which would be july 2022 but it seems that it's a little bit different for the july 2023 like that's

july 2023 is a year and a half away and it seems like there is a chance

that uh there could be an additional system that's certified between now and

then so um i'm wondering is there any reason that

you can't um sort of like

it seems like the decision to extend at least one year is pretty clear but as far as the second year is there any

reason you couldn't postpone that until next year to kind of wait and see how things look

yeah so we laid we laid out the factors in the memo and it's really a decision for the board

so if the board wants to approve the contract for one year then that's the boar's decision the board chooses two

years that's the board's decision as well but we just want to provide the information this will also go to

the board when it when the budget hearings occur okay so you're not really making a

decision either way on it in this document yeah we can't i mean because the contract amount will exceed

10 million dollars then also the the extension themselves over with 500 000

we have to bring this to the board for their approval and so since there's two on your options the board could choose to

to approve one year they could choose to prove two years okay

and then um and then related to this um i think the chart on the top of page six is very

helpful to like understand the different options and um i was i was wondering if maybe

you could between now in the commission meeting maybe just um supplement the chart a little bit

because on the previous page you have there's like two periods you have the

bid and negotiation period from six to eight months and then the implementation outreach period four to five months

and the thing that would i think would be helpful in understanding is to add a couple more rows like

it says the date you'd have to issue a new rfp and then one thing that's

not clear to me is what would be the approximate month where you would need to have the agreement

signed by sort of like basically six to eight months past that issuance right

and then and then the other row would be um it says four to five months for implementation outreach like how far in

advance of the election do you need to finish that phase well it's not just the outreach it's

also the bringing the assistant into the department yeah because the department has to learn the system as well so

uh the more time the better so we want at least six months

but if we had more if we had eight months it would be better okay

yeah so so basically it's you know you kind of have the date to issue the new rfp and then you have another date by which you'd like to have

the contract signed and then you have another date by which you'd like to have sort of the new system phased in and

then you have the actual election date we can break it out i mean those items

are actually uh included in those in those current rows that are in the the button to the the

memo so if you read the text prior to that to that table we've included those those items but we

can we can break it out for that that's fine yeah no no i know i just i just meant because i think the table is very

helpful but um okay that's all my um oh and then the last thing was on page

five it says i'm in the middle of the page it says

the department may need to issue a request for proposals for a new system in mid-2022

should that would that be for you either you need to issue it in

either mid 2022 or mid 2023 depending on what

you decide there oh yeah potentially right okay all right those are all my questions

thank you yeah i just have a

couple quick ones and i know um you've dealt with this a couple times more recently but

this budget i assume is really based just on known elections so to the extent we have any additional

recalls which just seems to be happening more frequently these days i assume that that means you'd have to

kind of get additional funding because that would be over and above and and i know we've talked about it a little

bit in the general commission meetings but at a high level what's the process for you to get additional funding for

those kind of one-off or you know um those one-off elections that do come up

so the the process is we have to first inform the mayor's office because the

mayor's office is basically the starting point for any budget additions to a department's operations

so we'd have to compile our cost estimate meet with the mayor's office finalize those costs the mayor's office

would also look for savings in our existing funding and so even if we ask for let's say 10

million dollars they might try to find five million dollars in savings so we only get five million dollars in the supplemental appropriation

so the first step is to to work with the mayor's office settle on the amount uh then we bring that to the to the

board and the the board's budget analyst will review the numbers ask us questions and then uh write a a report on the

request for the supplemental and then the supplemental must go through a hearing process at the board of supervisors

the first step is with the the budget and finance committee there's at least one hearing and then there's if they

agree and they might ask for changes to the budget as well but if what we presented is accepted at

the budget finance it would move to the board there has to be two hearings at two readings at the board for because

it's an ordinance when there's a supplemental appropriation it's actually an ordinance that's not just a

uh like writing a check there's it's part of the

how do i say it's a legal framework how government's funded the aso what's called the annual or

something something uh but uh yeah there's two readings at the board and then ideally the board will approve

the funding and then we have to wait for the city to actually fund the accounts

that we would use to make the purchases so even though the board has approved

there's a 10-day waiting period because the mayor can either approve veto or take no action on the ordinance

and then after that period ends and the controller's office would have to populate the accounts that we'd have the

funding to suspend for procurement and once that happened then we could start to make the purchases on those accounts for that

election so it's it's a process and it takes it takes a few months to to resolve

got it okay and for the recalls that we have had uh in the last calendar year

have you had budget constraints or has that process generally gotten you to

where you needed to be as far as kind of funding all of the you know the recall elections or

supplemental elections uh well

the the the ultimate answer is no we have a big constraint but the reason is

when the september 2021 gubernatorial recall occurred the state legislature

obtained budget estimates for all the counties to fund the counties for those costs associated with the gubernatorial

recall in september then any monies that weren't expended from the gubernatorial recall could be

moved forward for other elections so there was actually i think because it was like a one card ballot um you know

it was a it was because we didn't know how many how many cards would be at the time because the gubernatorial recall is

different because the candidates are listed who could potentially replace the governor

and then in you know when gray davis was recalled there was like 135 candidates and with this system

that might have meant two cards you know so we didn't know what the numbers were going to be so we had a few million dollars that moved forward in time uh

even before we knew we were going to have a february election we knew we had some some money so we had we had some

initial monies already that we could use to prepare for february but then just recently

this this month or the last month i came around the board did approve

a a budget appropriation for the department to pay for both february and

april in relation to those extra points we move forward from the september election

so right now no we're in good shape as far as funding is concerned okay great

uh and then unrelated question uh as far as the kind of overlap with the budget and the

redistricting it looks like the kind of costs maybe additional costs that come from the

redistricting is really on the outreach and the publicity side are there any other kind of costs that arise from the

redistricting so last last fiscal year i included funds for redistricting in that budget

and so last year's but the current budget i should say is actually paying for the cost for the redistricting

activities got it got it okay great perfect thank you

great thank you to my fellow commissioners who covered several of my questions um

let me just start out director arts by saying there's a number of things in here that i found um incredibly

um heartwarming or impressive uh heartwarming maybe too

emotional but i wanted to particularly call out and thank the you and the department for

the increased stipends for poll workers and thank you for explaining the tax implications what a mess that is but um

especially because of the multilingual issues um the increases in drop boxes

the commitment to languages beyond those that are mandated i think is just a hallmark of the department and the

commission the commitment to racial equity as are the partnerships with community

groups um which i can't imagine um haven't have been anything less than

vital during all these changes we've had i also um very much appreciated the

depth of information on the vendor contract um commissioner jerdonek answered

or asked and you answered most of my questions there i have a very simple question which is um given that a decision about

issuing a new rfp would if we that were to happen would be needed by july of

2022 am i correct in assuming that the process of having the board

vote on that is in place and there's nothing the commission needs to do about that between now and july

correct so the so the the contract is not a commission matter it would be a board matter right so right so we would

bring the contract request essentially to the board then they would make the decision and do you have a sense of

which month you're planning to do that it'd be during the budget process okay

that's so we're thinking we we go for the the june hearings and that would be part of the conversation

perfect okay um that leads me to my other questions which i have so many of them

i broke them into categories so

and just a general expectation setting for me and i for any public members this budget as uh

commissioner chapel noted there are three expected elections covered in the time frame of this budget

right of these two budgets 20 november 2023 march 24 and november 2024 so any

recalls any special elections all above and beyond um on that given

the plethora of recalls that the department will have managed by say the

end of this calendar year or perhaps you've already done this is it possible to

provide a dollar range for what each of these costs i mean i imagine there's a significant difference between

the like the the local school board and the governor or maybe there aren't but do you have a sense just of a what a

recall election actually costs the city well we know what we know what the

gubernatorial recall election cost because that was a standalone contest essentially

but with the february election it is consolidated with two other contests 8017 and

accessory quarter so there i mean so there's an elections cost i mean potentially you could take the election

as well actually you couldn't uh but most of the costs if there weren't ad 17 and

accessory quarter in the february election would have been born by holding the the recall election so i

mean potentially we could make that make that uh estimation

then for april uh we don't we don't know april yet if

it'll even occur and then there's a there's and also the challenge between february and april is

the overlap then also by time we get into april we're running the june election as well

so april would be at this point would be we could give you an estimate but i don't know how accurate would be but certainly you know we could look at the

numbers and break it down just matter when you'd want those numbers and yeah i i certainly don't need them

anytime soon i'm just thinking certainly by the end of calendar 2022 when department

here would have been required to you know go so far above and beyond it

would might be helpful to have some kind of ballpark um

so then specific to the documents and this may be in the same professional services line

um we were commissioner durdonic was referring to i was looking to see if i

could find any specific line item costs for the november 22 pilot implementation

so those costs the on the on the vendor side will be carried by voting works right and then on our side i mean

it's hard for us to forecast a number yeah that so we're gonna have to just

incorporate those costs into to our operating budget i in the with having the one or two ballot

marking devices at the voting center and then a scanner um i mean

we probably can absorb that then on the the um

the risk limited auditing aspect yep um that could that could actually well

that there's i have two thoughts on that one if we have to actually do everything if we have to do risk limit auditing on

every single contest that what even could be bit spendy uh but at the same time i

don't expect there to be a you know a large number of cards in relation to

the the election yep develops the capital elections i don't know but then also you know i'm wondering the

the regulations allow for any contest that's fully counted manually did not

have to undergo a risk limited auditing but the statute first for the pilot program requires all contests to be risk

limited auditing risk limiting audited so that's a question i'll have for the state and i'll put that in i don't know

if i'll put that i guess i'll put the application if there's a way for us to do a

uh not do a risk limit auditing for every contest involving the cards that

were cast using the ballot marking devices for voting works and do a full manual count

for most the contest so that and that would be better for us actually and that's something we can do rather quickly

okay the the not doing a risk limiting auditing

because they were hand counted right right okay um it occurred to me as i was thinking this through just that there might be

um so that's definitely some of them staff time for the ballot transferring

and are there any security costs to this city based on the need to

uh have chain of custody if that's the right phrase over the machinery

no we that we'll have to wrap that into what we're doing with the dominion system essentially okay

great thank you um item my question number three i noted that the voting center at city hall is

mentioned but i may have just missed any reference to others or are there we no longer doing

voting centers because of the vote by mail so we're not doing additional voting

centers besides city hall in this budget okay and partially it's because the the mayor's uh budget instructions were

for for departments not to create new programs but to fund existing programs but and then also part two was not to

increase cost in relation to existing programs which you know that's our challenge because you really

can't achieve that uh so we have not offered new programs and we for the most part have not sought

increases in existing programs okay have you heard any public reaction to

that then in we act no we haven't uh

and it might be because of everyone getting a belt in the mail yeah i don't know we've got a lot of positive response on

the ballot drop-off boxes so people are i mean they are aware of what's going on but we haven't really

received much input i have it at least regarding other voting centers in the city

got it okay the salary information that appears on

form 3b is particularly where it was

um [Music] you highlight in your memo and then note in um

[Music] some of the line items here i'm just checking these are all in line with the

recent audit that was reviewed these have anything to do with that and

um oh oh oh oh oh no that audit was that was no that was more of a payroll issue

that was how we were inputting and then then and then tracking any discrepancies

between our internal database and the city's database so now this

okay this is different yeah okay

is the item you were discussing a minute ago with commissioner gerdonic about the pay uh the poll worker stipends

linked is that payroll challenge and the pay stipends and the taxes is that all part of the same bunch of concerns

though or are those also separate they're not part of like of anything with position changes or form 3b

because because poll workers are termed as volunteers right so they get a stipend and that

actually comes from a revolving fund that's administered by the controller's office

so we we will get a funding amount but then the the controller's office will will uh

cut the checks for the poll workers from that from that fund okay whereas the revenue positions i get

issue checks you know through the regular payroll the city

but okay so then let me ask a slightly different question i'm still looking at form 3b top row

all the way to the right it talks about the 350 seasonal staff so those seasonal staff are separate from the poll workers

right okay all right that makes sense thank you um

you note on page 11 of your reports and and i think prior to that as well that

there are increased security costs uh coming from a request from sfusd for

those sites so two questions what is the concern or what is the district uh

requiring security for and do you know what percentage of your

voting sites are sfusd property on the latter question first i don't

know the percentage it's it's a high number we use a lot of schools we have 62 schools just for february and

we're using a validated election uh but i don't know i can't think of that number now for uh if

a full complement of polling places i'll have to get back to that okay thank you yeah and then on the um

so on the costs so in the past the school district has always had on-site secure private security

at the schools and the private security uh

would i guess include the space where the polling places are

located at the schools as a part of the of the security uh you know job for the for the day

the school district is concerned that that that one that one person that is on site for the school districts

really can't direct people to the correct locations in the building so voters need to go to the to the polling

location non-voters need to go to the front office and so the school district is asking for us to

provide security they first asked for security and that's why we we have secure private security

uh comp vendors uh as part of our budget uh to direct the public to go to the

correct spaces at the school uh but but also the the school so they're not really worried about

security but just making sure people get to the right spots within the building right uh so we we will also

add poll workers to those who are directing voters and non-voters to the correct locations at

the school we we we know we can't recruit enough poll workers yep for this

and that's partially why we're trying to get this to stipend higher so for this for february for sure and then

for for april for june we know we'll be using private security uh and then in november potentially if the stipend goes

up we can supplement with more poll workers and cut back on the private security at the schools

that makes sense so that um right because the preference i presume

would be to use stipended individuals and not someone

who like and presents as a security

person right and additionally you know if we have poll workers they can also do the work

yeah you know they can accept voting booths and you

know all that no okay thank you that answers that that's important um okay then i have a couple

questions that sort of go beyond just the the budget um specifically in your memo on page

four you have a sentence about the specific complexities of the march 2024 primary

in terms of voter outreach is there something in particular you were referring to well that so the

yeah you've been you've been on the commission long enough so the primaries is when you have the the party determines what ballot

people can vote for the presidential con contest and you have nonpartisan some can cross

over to other you know some can't depending on the party so that's the challenge is trying trying to get the

word out about that um we we've done better certainly as time has gone on but also the media has

done better the campaigns have done better but still it's something that you really have to hit and focus on for

presidential primaries about the voter nominated contest such as the president's

race where voters based on their party can select some ballots to vote uh versus others so

that's helpful so it's it's a complexity of all primaries not just the 2024 one

just presidential primaries right okay got it that's helpful to and clarifying thank you um actually i said

several of these have been answered two other questions sort of generalized um

again compliments on the um focus on outreach the one thing i didn't

see called out that i i wondered about was specific to

outreach that's specific to non-citizens for the school districts elections whether that was

if there were anything specific needed for that or costs associated with that that aren't born by the district but are

born by the department so we incorporate outreach to non-citizens and our

customary or usual outreach efforts then also the the mailer that we send out to

all the households in the before every election references nonsense is being able to vote certain not eligible not assistants

being able to vote in board of education elections but then also uh we initially but now

it's the office of civic engagement and immigrant affairs uh receives a 250 000 grant

package from the city to disperse to community organizations specifically to do outreach to

non-citizens about their eligibility to to vote in board of ed so oc eia and us

we're like and then of course the community organizations amplify those efforts and we give the community organizations our materials as well so

it's a group effort but i guess the biggest chunk of money is going to ocia

which is this versus grant monies great okay good really good to hear that thank you

um a totally different topic from the memo

um you have a good amount of detail in both the

forms and the memo about the additional or the use of a contractor to do the

assembly of vote by mail packets and i was just curious whether that the

contractor that you've used is who you're planning to use again i didn't see a specific firm named

and are such contractors certified by the secretary of state in some way shape

or form oh they are okay yeah and they're certified also by the vendor but the voting system vendor to print

that vendor's ballots okay and are you you so you're reissuing a contract but have you been satisfied

with the the work of the current vendor absolutely yeah so we use k nh printing okay and it's an ever yeah and we're

very satisfied okay great okay good i i was just a note um about part of my

question about the um the costs of these special elections and recall elections i haven't been paying

attention to this in the last month but i know that there was some discussion at the state earlier uh or closer to the gubernatorial

election that there might be legislation being considered about the costs of those re

um that if you put a recall election on a ballot you're ultimately responsible

for the costs in some way i don't know if any of that has moved forward in any are you aware of any of this

and i was wondering if in the in the fee structure that you outline in terms of revenue if um

there was anything specific anyway the department gets some of its costs covered in fees when there are recall

elections or anything like that other than just the people registering to be candidates it depends so like the

school board recall elections for instance the district would would have had to have reimbursed the department

slash city for those costs because it's essentially a district election yep but that was

part of the about the supplemental budget appropriation that we received like i think it was either this month or

the last month from this must have been this month where uh there was three million dollars or so

that was earmarked as part of the reimbursement from the school district to the department of city for the cost

of conducting the recall but if it were let's say recalling the the district attorney in the stand-alone

election the city would bear the entire cost of that election got it sure okay

i'll keep my eye on what's going on in sacramento about that i don't know if any of that's moving forward okay thank you for bearing with me i have two more

questions or really these may just be comments because they're much longer range in mind but i they were sparked by

this very um comprehensive report the first one has to do with um

i'll say i was struck by the need for a new sweeping machine to clean out pier 31.

and i'm wondering i know that the city is undergoing all kinds of discussions and planning and probably much more than

i'm even aware of about climate change and the waterfront whether any of that has or will or how

it might affect the department's use of the peer as a storage unit and whether those conversations are already underway

no we've had no conversations in relation to having to vacate the space because of climate change

is that are you participating or is there a direct department link to

those planning discussions and is that something we might want to look into given

what i assume is a heavy reliance on that pier for storage and the need to think about where

we might want to put this equipment in times of rising tides

no i'm not a part of any conversations i'd have to i have to find out okay so

i recently i remember reading a um about a new city-wide

group that was working on this but i'm not i couldn't begin to tell you where it was i'd have to do some thinking

myself and i'm happy to try to find it and let you know um okay so that's not currently under

under wraps and then as i look through both the budget and plans and of course

recognizing that there are limits on new programs i was just

wanting to to ask you um whether or not if there were resources

available uh the um department has put any thought into

the need for communication expertise specifically regarding um

miss and disinformation threats or legal challenges to elections given just the

climate we're operating in and the challenges and threats that are are elsewhere if there were expertise to be

had it i wasn't i don't have a particular job in mind it just when i was looking

at that outreach a a column in your org chart you've got

a management assistant and a junior management assistant and i was just wondering if you've heard of other

departments or other parts of the other jurisdictions where there's someone on staff who's tasked with

attending to the um numerous kind of social

dynamics around elections and if that's a skill or capacity that you

that the department would be interested in if the resources were available yeah that would be

well i mean our our if we had that resource it may be more specific to san francisco

no but the secretary of state's office that was part of the budget two years ago

from the state they created a cyber security office the secretary of state's office so that office is tasked with

dispelling misinformation providing guidance to the counties if it's a threat of a cyber security or if there's

been any you know bad information that potentially is is harming an elections process so

and then also we're we're part of the secretary of state's office as part of several

other agencies that are monitoring social media websites circumstances around elections

so but specific to san francisco now and i don't know if it's really something we would need to fund because i don't know

how much that person would do uh you know other than just specific instances around election but there are

resources though that that is a staff role now in in at the state level you're

saying yes yeah okay so it's it's a it's an established office that's funded from year to year okay and they're providing

guidance and they they provide updates and they're also part of i can't remember the

the name of the organizations but there's there's a there's an umbrella group that that monitors and issues statements

around election security um that that the sos cyber security office

is involved in as well but no we don't have anything locally got it great i'm glad to know that that

exists at the state level those are all my questions thank you for your patience with me um commissioners did you have any others

uh commissioner yeah thank you both commissioners chapel

and bernholtz for your questions and um i have

i have a one extra question also a couple follow-ups to some of president bernoullis's questions

um first on the poll workers i don't know if we've discussed this before

um it may even be in the materials i i but i i can't remember seeing it

the um with the all vote by mail

mailings and fewer people voting in polling places

are you um are the number of poll workers that are required going down at all since

you don't have the same um busy times yeah our target number for each polling place

used to be around five to six ball workers now we try to we try to hit four poll workers uh per polling place but we know

that realistically we can operate with three if necessary and that's based on their turnout

as well and is that reflected in the budget numbers or do you just sort of allow

that to fluctuate no it's it's reflected in the budget the uh the increase in the number of poll

workers or the decrease in the stipend that's reflected i mean the the decrease in the number of

right right the stipend increase i mean it's multiplied by by four versus five

okay thank you and then um just a couple more questions on the um

the voting system on as a follow-up you said that the voting system is reflected under the

professional services row but um i mean is there a part of the voting

system cost i think it's a couple million dollars a year but some of that cost is and i don't know if it's broken

out but some of it's like leasing the actual equipment right is that

is that lumped in with the professional services so it's a lease of equipment and the provision of services

okay and then um in response to president bernhard's question you said that the

the resolution to renew the contract will be kind of tied into the budget hearings

will there still be like a its own actual resolution that the supervisors

vote on in the context of those hearings yeah right they'd have to it's separate from the actual budget

okay and then um when you draft that resolution for the board are you um

are you going to what are you going to recommend in terms of or who are you going to ask

in terms of whether it should be renewed for one year or two years when it comes to drafting that initial

i would draft the member they would the my mail the member and resolution would go to the board

there's not there's not a particular supervisor that would ask if the entire board

i mean what i'm saying is in your resolution are you going to be requesting a two-year renewal or just a

one-year renewal i will land we'll lay it out similarly as we did in the memo let the board it's it's a

policy matter for the board to decide uh i mean my recommendation would be for two years okay i don't think another

system will be certified in time for us to go out to bid secure the the system

and and this is something you know this conversation has been had many times in the years previously when

we went out to bed like you know a system might show up system might show up and it never does uh but two years is a very short time

it's been in for elections uh and i i think it makes sense but it's up to the board though too i mean if

there is if a system is submitted to the secretary of state's office and the secretary of state's office could give an estimate of when they

would finish the review we could use that information but without having a system introduced for an application

submit secretary states no one can even give an estimation of when a system would be approved because no application

exists yet so so again we'll lay it out to the board uh we'll provide the information and if

they think one year's the you know sufficient then that's what that's what they'll approve

okay all right thank you yeah i as far as myself i think it seems like a one year

would be good just and then we can wait and see and then and then do the other year the next year but um but yeah we'll

see what the board says but the challenge though too is i mean as we're going into the next year in 2023

you know we're going into the you know the mayor's race in november and then going into uh

the uh the primary in march so it's a quick turnaround then the following year

you're going to the presidential election so you know there's also an election to me at least there's always elections timing

part of this not just a matter of when the change could could occur but again it's up to the board so wherever

the board decides that's that's what will happen okay

thank you great they said all the commissioner questions

um all right fabulous martha is there any public comment

yes we have two callers on the line uh first caller i will unmute you you have three minutes

can you hear me now yes great david pilfel um sorry i was

running around the house uh we have uh problems not just foreign but sometimes domestic

so i missed some of your uh discussion but i did want to touch on two points

first back to commissioner chapel's question from it seems like 45 minutes ago on what

does the department uh need to do after redistricting or are there any

costs that that flow from that that aren't capped blah blah blah sorry that's a technical term blah blah

i my answer in part to that is that the department will need to re-precinct the

city based on redistricting with uh not just the lines that have already

been drawn for the state for equalization

senate congress senate and assembly but will also need to layer on the bart

districts and the new supervisorial districts for november um but i suspect

i i don't know this for a fact that there is sufficient staff and funding in the budget for

uh the precinct services group or whoever is doing that to do that representing work and i suspect um and i

hope that that doesn't have to get done again for another uh ten years and that we will be able to keep those same uh

lines through uh what would that be the election prior to june of 2032 when hopefully we're all

still around but in any event that i think is the follow-on piece to uh

redistricting that the department needs to do to operationalize it for november i hope that's fairly clear and then the

other piece given the discussion um to president bernhard that based on the discussion you just had about the budget

my thought and i i don't like to make more work so i don't want this to become

a big deal perhaps in future election plans there could be another paragraph that just has

a very high level budget summary that says based on all the staffing needs and

the systems and procedures and checks and balances and whatnot that are elsewhere in this plan we believe

that this upcoming election will cost blah and of that the board either has

already appropriated this amount or would we expect to get this in reimbursement from the state

or bart is contributing x amount the school district is going to have to cover the recall unless that's covered

some other way is that just some high-level budget summary in the election plan and then in the follow-up

uh memo to the election plan from the director after the election before the commission makes a determination that

was fair free full and fun whatever the three apps are um that there's uh again a touch back on

the budget that says you know based on our actuals we believe the actual cost was blah blah and was covered in in

roughly these ways because there is um that significant time lag from when the original election plan is written to

when you come back and evaluate it so that would be a way to capture those kinds of costs again at a very high

level i'm not looking for the election plan to morph into some big detailed

budget document anyway those are my thoughts uh thanks for listening hope that's helpful

thank you

i'm sorry and did i say that i support the budget and everything that's going on thank you for listening

thank you we david another caller

uh mr turner i will and you know you have three minutes

i thank you martha and and hello everyone um brent turner just uh wanted

to make a couple points first of all uh i think the public

believes that it is best for john arnst and the department of elections to have

funding for anything they need surrounding

free fair and secure elections i think it maybe goes without saying at this

point in our nation's history and thinking that california is a leader in san francisco then a

leader in california we we want to be exemplary um and especially since we're pioneering

these open source voting systems so his funding i'm just hoping that

he has everything he needs um secondly um i wanted to

mention about the uh uh segmenting of the contractual re-ups

i know it's better for dominion to get their hands on a two-year

promise and committal from the city uh commitment but um

i think it's best is supervisor uh i'm sorry commissioner jordanic says that

uh it goes in one year periods um especially with the

statements by their representative that the people of san francisco

don't care about elections and that the elections commission

doesn't know anything about elections i would say uh forming

more concrete commitment toward that particular vendor is ill-advised

especially since we now have this open source voting system

opportunity right here in front of us so what i'm hopeful is is that we do everything we can to live up to our

moral obligation to show leadership within the state and they're then there

for the country on this issue of all hands on deck all efforts toward

the future better system and the immediate phasing out of the inferior legacy system thanks to you all

for your great work thank you thank you

that was it for callers that's it okay so uh no more public

comments uh i don't think there's action items based on this and

given the need to just this will reappear as a agenda item on the

february 14th agenda then um so i think we can move on

which would be any agenda items for future meetings of both pack since for an ad hoc committee i don't know that

there would be any of those okay uh and we can move to adjournment then i

think you need to take comment on the item on the agenda item for future meetings

certainly any comment on the future meeting agenda item

there aren't any hands raised okay i don't see any comments from my

fellow commissioners okay great thank you

so we can adjourn this meeting thank you uh director arts and deputy city attorney flores it is 405 pm by my uh

computer and uh hope everybody has a safe and healthy weekend

maybe even have fun you too bye thanks john thanks hannah bye-bye

everybody